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PARKINSN Home

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PARKINSN  July 2000, Week 1

PARKINSN July 2000, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Suicide / and a small jant rant

From:

Camilla Flintermann <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Parkinson's Information Exchange Network <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 3 Jul 2000 22:07:32 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (126 lines)

Dear Carole-Grinch,
I was very moved and impressed by your discussion of CD--Janet called it
eloquent, and I certainly agree.
BUT  I was specifically NOT talking about suicidal people who are
suffereing from CD!  Rather I referred to those situations in which CD is
NOT a major factor.  "Depression" can cover a variety of conditions, in
addition to the  "monster" of CD, as you correctly identify it. There are
persons who may even have a mild, chronic depressed state, but are not
clinically depressed in the true sense of the term.  They may have a very
clear understanding of their condition and prospects, and may make a choice
that the life available to them is not acceptable.  This may have been
something they have long considered, accepted, and discussed with their
families---in this situation I feel they have a right to what has been
called "their final act of self-determination."
And BTW--I happen to agree that "forcing" antipsychotic meds is in the best
interest of the patient--PC or not!  <G>

And I appreciated Janet's gracious recognition that the focus of her post
was very narrow.
 I think we're discussing apples and oranges here, and somehow they need to
be put into separate baskets.....


Friend Carole wrote:
>Hi Camilla: Excuse me for jumping in here. I love you
>dearly and respect your opinion, and I can't speak for
>janet, BUT...I feel that what makes CD such a monster is
>that the way it distorts your perceptions. How can one make
>a rational decision re: ending one's life while in the grip
>of such debilitating anhedonia? But then I also feel that
>the mentally ill have the right to refuse their medication
>and revert to their psychotic state only after we have
>exercised their right to become sane by "forcing" them to
>take their meds-a currently politically incorrect opinion.
>                       Carole
>
>--- Camilla Flintermann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Dear Janet-- of course you--like anyone--are entitled to
>> your opinion.  May
>> I suggest that there are differing ones on this subject?
>> I think that in
>> SOME SITUATIONS, DEPRESSION IS NOT THE MAJOR FACTOR--and
>> I am not speaking
>> of Paige, who may well have been a victim of CD--I have
>> no way of knowing
>> that.
>>
>> The Hemlock Society takes the view that there are times
>> when a perfectly
>> rational person who is suffering from an incurable
>> disease and whose
>> quality of life is *for them* unacceptable, may make that
>> choice, with the
>> knowledge of loved ones.  This, I think, implies that  it
>> is NOT an act of
>> depression and desperation, when loving families are
>> involved.   Think of
>> the example of  the very frail elderly person, bedridden
>> in  a nursing
>> home, who simply  turns to the wall and refuses
>> nourishment---that person
>> is not necessarily depressed, but may simply feel that
>> "the time has come
>> to leave".
>>
>> I respect the fervor of your concern re: CD, based on
>> your personal
>> experience and your situation--but please also respect
>> the feelings of
>> those who may differ with you, and who may be in a very
>> different situation
>> from yours and those you are writing about.  As a
>> counselor, there were
>> times when I struggled to keep potentially suicidal
>> clients  from acting
>> out the wish, till help could be found for their
>> depression.
>> Can't we just agree that like most things in life, this
>> question may have
>> more than one answer?
>>
>>
>>
>> >At 06:25 AM 2000/07/03 -0400,
>> >"Judy George <[log in to unmask]>" wrote, in part:
>> >>...paige bremer may have weighed up her future and made
>> a
>> >>choice as many of us may do i respect her right to do
>> that
>> >>and admire her courage...
>> >
>> >the concept of suicide as an act of courage
>> >rather than the final act of despair and desperation
>> >of an individual in agony and distorted thinking
>> >strikes me as irrational balderdash
>> >which only contributes to the demeaning misconceptions
>> >and cruel ignorance clouding issues around clinical
>> depresssion
>> >and its curability
>> >
>> >
>> >but then again, that's only my opinion
>> >
>> >janet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         Camilla Flintermann
>>        Oxford,OH




        Camilla Flintermann                                      Oxford,OH

                                      <[log in to unmask]>

        On PDWebring at : http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/genugten/flinterm.htm

                          ***   ***   ***   ***   ***   ***   ***   ***

                        We agree to differ...
                                we resolve to love...
                                                   we  unite to serve.
                          ***   ***   ***   ***   ***   ***   ***   ***

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February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 3
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June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
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July 1999, Week 3
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March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
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February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
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January 1999, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
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September 1998, Week 2
September 1998, Week 1
August 1998, Week 5
August 1998, Week 4
August 1998, Week 3
August 1998, Week 2
August 1998, Week 1
July 1998, Week 5
July 1998, Week 4
July 1998, Week 3
July 1998, Week 2
July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
June 1998, Week 4
June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
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January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
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December 1997, Week 3
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November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
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November 1997, Week 1
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October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
October 1997, Week 2
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September 1997, Week 3
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September 1997, Week 1
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August 1997, Week 1
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June 1997, Week 3
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May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
February 1997, Week 4
February 1997, Week 3
February 1997, Week 2
February 1997, Week 1
January 1997, Week 5
January 1997, Week 4
January 1997, Week 3
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December 1996, Week 5
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June 1996, Week 3
June 1996, Week 2
June 1996, Week 1
May 1996, Week 5
May 1996, Week 4
May 1996, Week 3
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May 1996, Week 1
April 1996, Week 5
April 1996, Week 4
April 1996, Week 3
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April 1996, Week 1
March 1996, Week 5
March 1996, Week 4
March 1996, Week 3
March 1996, Week 2
March 1996, Week 1
February 1996, Week 5
February 1996, Week 4
February 1996, Week 3
February 1996, Week 2
February 1996, Week 1
January 1996, Week 5
January 1996, Week 4
January 1996, Week 3
January 1996, Week 2
January 1996, Week 1
December 1995, Week 5
December 1995, Week 4
December 1995, Week 3
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November 1995, Week 1
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April 1995, Week 1
March 1995, Week 5
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May 1994, Week 1
April 1994, Week 5
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April 1994, Week 1
March 1994, Week 5
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March 1994, Week 3
March 1994, Week 2
March 1994, Week 1
February 1994, Week 4
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