> > 2.  Since fetal stem cells are derived from the products of IVF (in
> > virtro fertilization) which has as its primary goal the initiation of
> > life for couples who otherwise would not be able to conceive and the
> > embryos that are utilized for stem cell research are the byproduct of
> > that process which cannot result in a live birth the use of Stem cells
> > in research is moral and reasonable.

Why do docs have to make so many more embryos than what is needed.  Why
can't they just make 2 or three and then implant them all.  The odds for a
successful pg are so low from each one that it would be highly unlikely to
result in a multiple birth anyway?  Do they just want to save money and make
as many as possible in one go?  That doesn't seem right to me.  Am I missing
something?  Jen

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles T. Meyer, M.D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 2:05 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Fwd: stem cells - Agreement between Dr. Fink and Me


>
>  The following is a copy of messages  exchange by Bob Fink and
> myself.  Did anybody think this could happen?  Maybe there will be peace
> in the Middle East
>and the Messiah will come either the 1st or 2nd time depending on your
>viiewpoint-  but let us stay away from religion!?!



>  > Let's try and wrap this up and summarize where we agree. I think this
> > has been one of the best debates I have participated on the issue of
> > an abortion related subject and I think the people on the list enjoyed
> > it also.I don't think you should have any problem with 1to4 or 7 5+6
> > probably will require some rewriting and I ask you to write what you
> > think works that you think I might agree to,
> >
> > The areas of agreement are:
> > 1. Fetal stem cell research has significant promise and should under
> > close supervision continue.
> >
> > 2.  Since fetal stem cells are derived from the products of IVF (in
> > virtro fertilization) which has as its primary goal the initiation of
> > life for couples who otherwise would not be able to conceive and the
> > embryos that are utilized for stem cell research are the byproduct of
> > that process which cannot result in a live birth the use of Stem cells
> > in research is moral and reasonable.
> >
> > 3.  While the NIH guidelines appear appropriate it is crucial that
> > they be followed closely because of the fact that some Americans
> > believe that  human life begins at conception, feel that the use of
> > embryos  and pre embryos in research cheapens life and do not have
> > faith in the NIH  monitoring at present.
> >
> > 4. Based on our present state of the (scientific) art, we cannot prove
> > that an embryo of younger than 8 weeks has brain activity.  Relying on
> > the current (legal) interpretation of "brain death" as a guide, such
> > an embryo would not be considered a human being.  This could change
> > with either better measurement or different interpretation of the
> > meaning of the EEG recording.
> >
> > 5. The exact moment of when human life starts is controversial and
> > subject to interpretation as filtered through each individual's
> > experience philosophy and religion.  Science has no answer.  In early
> > stages of development some people believe that  the loss of a
> > pregnancy through spontaneous means or abortion results a death (or a
> > murder) while others believe it is only the loss of potential life.
> > In cases where it is a matter of faith or interpretation and there are
> > no overwhelming scientific data to proceed on, the mother, and father
> > in concert with their physician and clergy (if desired) are the only
> > people who can make the choice of what is right for them.  They should
> > not be coerced in any direction
> >
> > 6.   The rights of the mother vs. the rights of the baby are
> > controversial and beyond the scope of this summary.  Court decisions,
> > including constitutional interpretations, the political process and
> > precedent need to be our guides here.
> >
> > 7.  Violence and is not a way to resolve this matter.  This is the
> > ultimate cheapener of life.
> >
> >
> >
> > >**********************************************
> > >Robert A. Fink, M. D., F.A.C.S., P. C.
> > >2500 Milvia Street  Suite 222
> > >Berkeley, California  94704-2636
> > >Telephone:  510-849-2555   FAX:  510-849-2557
> > >WWW:  http://www.dovecom.com/rafink/
> > >
> > >mailto:[log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >"Ex Tristitia Virtus"
> > >
> > >*********************************************
> >
> > Charles T. Meyer, M.D.
> > Middleton, WI
> > PD DX  12 years (at age 44)
> > Age 56
>
>Charlie,
>
>You get an A+ from me.  I have no problem accepting *all 7* of your
>summary statements.  My only caveat is in number 5, where I feel very
>strongly that the *father* needs to be included in the considerations
>concerning abortion and other procedures which may involve the
>termination of life.  I would insert a *comma* after "to proceed on", to
>make this clearer.
>
>You may post our agreement to the List if you wish.  It has been a
>stimulating exercise debating with you and most of the others on this
>issue.
>
>
>Best,
>
>Bob
>
>
>**********************************************
>Robert A. Fink, M. D., F.A.C.S., P. C.
>2500 Milvia Street  Suite 222
>Berkeley, California  94704-2636
>Telephone:  510-849-2555   FAX:  510-849-2557
>WWW:  http://www.dovecom.com/rafink/
>
>mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
>"Ex Tristitia Virtus"
>
>*********************************************

Charles T. Meyer, M.D.
Middleton, WI
PD DX  12 years (at age 44)
Age 56