Pam--
I wasn't trying to suggest that the biblical narratives I noted
were the only resources available. Presumably, as you suggested, sermons
might contain biblical narrative, and one can imagine creating a narrative
around a painted image or stained window. I'm not sure I understand the
remark about York. Obviously, some one or possibly more than one had
access to the Northern Passion, which is a continuous biblical narrative,
because that person or persons used it in constructing some of the York
plays. I don't know about the circulation of Love's text in the north;
perhaps that's something we could find out about. Presumably it did
circulate in East Anglia, and Steve Spector believies it was used in the
writing of some of the N-town plays.
Larry
On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, B.H.Sadler wrote:
> Hi Larry,
> Yes, granted, and the Metrical Gospel of Nicodemus as a verbatim source for
> Chester come to that, but what do we mean precisely by 'biblical
> narrative', and how would the average York citizen, if we can permit of
> such, have received the Bible? Not through any generally available
> continuous narrative text, be it in Latin or the vernacular. The
> associative qualities of individual biblical stories for the populace are
> as likely to have been calendar-chronological, that is liturgical, as
> historical-chronological, which is, broadly, Protestant. And the really
> interesting thing about the licensing of Love's book, with its additons
> specifically on the Eucharist, is surely its political context. How much
> attention did the northern Province really pay to Arundel's Constitutions?
> Was the licensing of Love's work part of an orchestrated return to
> orthodoxy? I think this debate has a function it leads us to interrogate
> all generalisations, including (thanks, Cliff) what we imply by 'the Church'.
> Pam
>
> At 08:39 AM 11/12/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Pamela--
> >
> > You don't have to have a translation of the bible to have access
> >to biblical narrative. Instead, you have something like the Northern
> >Passion, which has been shown to have been used by the York playwrights,
> >for example. There are also biblical narratives in texts deriving from
> >the Meditations on the Life and Passion of Christ. Nicholas Love's
> >translation was authorized by Arundel in 1410. There are other vernacular
> >biblical accounts available (e.g. Cursor Mundi).
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, B.H.Sadler wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, Meg, but I'm not so busy as to be un-fascinated by this debate over
> >> ideas which I believed had a decent burial some years past.
> >> Two questions:-
> >> What kind of transmission mechanism is conjectured by those who persist in
> >> believing that Latin drama, entirely the preserve of collegiate
> >> ecclesiastical communities, wandered into the streets, becoming the
> >> property of a compeletly different social constituency, and in a completely
> >> different language?
> >> Equally, can mystery plays be tru;ly 'biblical' when no-one within the
> >> civic structure of the cities from which they emanate had access to a whole
> >> Bible?
> >> Clearly churchmen were involved in the writing of the mystery play texts
> >> which we have (though one should be scrupulous about eliding all the
> >> surviving cycle drama as if it were the same; it isn't). Equally clearly
> >> plays on biblical subjects performed on behalf of, by, and for the secular
> >> populace drew on their experience of the Bible, most of which came to them
> >> through the experience of worship and was, therefore, liturgical. This has,
> >> however, no demonstrable connection I know of to so-called 'liturgical
> >> drama'.
> >> But finally one other question:-
> >> Is there one other thriving field of scholarship in literature and drama in
> >> which work published fifty years ago and more is still being uncritically
> >> promulgated as canonical?
> >> Pamela King
> >>
> >>
> >> At 03:28 PM 10/19/01 +0100, you wrote:
> >> >And 'developed from the church liturgy' doesn't mean the same as
> 'liturgical
> >> >plays got up and walked out of the church into the marketplace'. Ask
> >> Pamela M.
> >> >King who is engaged in a major study on this. (But don't ask her at this
> >> >precise moment, she's rather busy running Cumbria.) Meg T.
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Clifford Davidson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> >> >> Sent: 19 October 2001 14:35
> >> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Fwd: 12c drama]
> >> >>
> >> >> But still identifying the Towneley plays as "Wakefield plays," which
> seem
> >> >> misleading in the light of recent research such as Barbara Palmer's
> which
> >> >> identify the collection as a set of plays from the West Riding.
> >> >>
> >> >> Some of these things are as hard to eradicate as the popular idea that
> >> >> Columbus
> >> >> was the one who discovered the world was not flat.
> >> >>
> >> >> Clifford Davidson
> >> >>
> >> >> Abigail Ann Young wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > > Suzanne S Webb wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > As a long-time textbook author (though in a different field), I know
> >> that
> >> >> > > the best way to get things changed is to get in touch with the
> >> >> > > developmental editor for the publishers of the big Brit Lit
> anthologies
> >> >> > > like Norton and complain, complain, complain and threaten to drop an
> >> >> > > adoption.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > The intro to the 2nd Play of the Shepherds in the Longman anthology
> >> >> > > (which is the one I use for this very reason) is not as offensive as
> >> the
> >> >> > > one in Norton. It says in the general intro to medieval lit, "The
> >> >> > > fifteenth century sees the flowering of the great dramatic "mystery
> >> >> > > cycles," sets of plays on religious themes produced and in part
> >> performed
> >> >> > > by craft guilds of larger towns in the Midlands and North. Included
> >> here
> >> >> > > is a brilliant sample, the Second Play of the Shepherds from the
> >> >> > > Wakefield Plays. Probably written by clerics, these plays are
> >> nonetheless
> >> >> > > dense with the preoccupations of contemporary working people and
> >> enriched
> >> >> > > by implicit analgies between the lives of their actors and the
> biblical
> >> >> > > events they portray."
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > In the intro to the 2 Shep, it says, "It [medieval drama]
> developed not
> >> >> > > from classical drama, which virtually died out in the Middle
> Ages, but
> >> >> > > from the church liturgy." The rest of the intro to the play seems
> to be
> >> >> > > based in large part on Kolve.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Sue Webb
> >> >> > > Texas Woman's University
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Abigail Ann Young (Dr), Associate Editor/Records of Early English
> Drama/
> >> >> > Victoria College/ 150 Charles Street W/ Toronto Ontario Canada M5S 1K9
> >> >> > Phone (416) 585-4504/ FAX (416) 813-4093/ [log in to unmask]
> >> >> > List-owner of REED-L <http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~reed/reed-l.html>
> >> >> > <http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~reed/reed.html> REED's home page
> >> >> > <http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~reed/stage.html> our theatre
> resource page
> >> >> > <http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~young> my home page
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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