Hi! Vello:
    Thank you or your response.
    As a scientist, I believe in whatever you are saying with such a
conviction, eventhough some of the terms are quite new to me, not being a
mathematician or a theoretical biophyicist.  Given that, you still have to
prove that EEG or alpha wave or the altered rhythm you claim to be
distinguishing PD tremors from other tremors, can be detected even before
the loss of 80% of the dopamine producing cells, as you know that this is
the case even before the fist symptom of PD is recognizable.   Can you claim
that this is so?  If you can prove that this is so, then the question
remains how would you approach avoiding or delaying the development of other
cassical symptoms of PD?
    Stem cell hypothesis is theoretically feasible and has been demonstrated
in model systems.  This is more practical (assuming this can be proven to
work in human patients), very simple to understand: one is replacing what
has been lost.  This is a case of simply replacing what one has lost for
reasons un known.  You cannot blame a desparate individual for clinging to
some ray of hope in the foreseable future considering other choices that are
left, if there are any.  As you yourself know, PD is affecting every
individual differently.  What works for Jan may or may not work for
everybody.  That does not mean we are refusing to try Jan's method.  In
advanced stages of PD, one will try everything, even if there is a faint
hope of being useful in some way.  Therefore, I think your accusation that
we are putting ALL our hopes on the stem cell card is not a fair one.
Simply, there is no other aproach to this problem that looks as promising as
the stem cell approach, in spite of all the uncertainties and unforeseen
impediments that might lie ahead, before we arrive at a procedure that shall
be 100% successful all the time.
    Raj
    [log in to unmask]

************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vello Reeben" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: on a causal theory of PD


>   Hello Raj, hello Janet, hello Murray, hello list,
>
>    Raj, I think that partly I have answered to your question about the
word
> rhythm in my answer to Paul.
>    About some more specific aspects of  "rhythmology" I try to answer
> another time.
>
>   Today I want to ask you and the list why have you put ALL the hope on
the
> stem cell card?
>
>   It is right that just recently in the leading journal Nature were two
> serious articles on stem cells and PD. I am glad together with you. For
> certain late cases of PD this way may be the only real help.
>   However, it seems to me that all - children and grandchildren and their
> parents and grandmothers and grandfathers, especially in families with a
> familial PD, still more especially in the case of some monogenetic forms
of
> familial PD with a young onset - are not less interested in getting help
in
> another question: how to live in order not to be in escalating line of an
> early onset?
>     Somehow the situation with the PD is like to the situation with the
> cancer, in both cases diagnosis is very often late (here 80% of
dopaminergic
> cells in substantia nigra lost) when a possibility for a regain is very
> problematic.
>    The cancer institutions have organized wide screenings for early
> discovering of early forms of cancer. So that people can get real
effective
> help.
>   Of course, effective screening needs effective methods for early
> discovering.
>   So my next question is: why not to pay serious attention for finding
> reliable symptoms for an early discovery of the PD process? It seems that
> just such communities as your list can do here something real. When the
> PWP-s carefully discuss with each other their first early symptoms and
chose
> the best ones. And then ask medical institutions to organize screenings.
>    I myself would recommend here a full Fourier spectrum of tremor. It
will
> not be a cheap procedure but the stem cell procedure is certainly more
> expensive.
>    What I do believe is that if a young member of a familial PD gets a
> really early warning the strategy of Jan Abas may give him a help with a
> greater hope for the success.
>
> Vello Reeben
>
> >From: Brightline <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
> ><[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: on a causal theory of PD
> >Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 08:02:38 -0300
> >
> >Hi! Vello and Jan:
> >     I am a newbie and joined the group only sometime in March, 2002.
> >Therefore, this is the first time I am reading Jan's email.  (by the way,
I
> >visited Jan's website and I recommend every body does so. It is full of
> >insipration and motivation) I have been trying to understand your
theories
> >on PD.  My stumbling block in doing so is the meaning or concept of
rhythm.
> >I have trouble understanding the word rhythm in your hypotheses.   You
> >state
> >that "the brain connects us with the Universe through detecting
vibrations
> >and rhythms".  How do you recognize this vibrations and rhythms?  Is this
a
> >conscious or an unconscious process, you somehow infer?
> >     I am a biologist and I believe in a pet hyhpothesis about God and
> >Religion.  I believe whereas religion is a human invention of convenience
> >to
> >fit the concept of God in our daily life, God or the Universal Spirit, as
I
> >would prefer to call it, is in every living organism and is still
evolving
> >within each living organism.  I consider life is the journey of physical
> >matter toward spiritualism.  By this definition, the Universtal Spirit
that
> >is pervasive in the whole Universe in every living organism (wherever it
> >exists) should be in synch that of each other's.
> >     Raj
> >     [log in to unmask]
> >***************************
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Vello Reeben" <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 2:01 PM
> >Subject: Re: on a causal theory of PD
> >
> >
> > > Hello Jan,
> > >
> > > thank you for a short summary of your philosophy and treatment
> > > strategy. I do not think that this writing was a vaste of time. Just a
> >short
> > > and clear presentation find more readers.
> > >    As your strategy has many contacts with our rhythm-born theoretical
> > > considerations about the SPECIFIC core of the PD I try to compare both
> > > approaches with each other.
> > >     I shall do it inside your strategy text.
> > >   For beginning a general remark: In German science there is a short
and
> > > nice proverb "Experimentieren geht ueber Studieren" stressing the idea
> >that
> > > any theory should experimentally validated.
> > >   So I am glad indeed that there already exists an experimenting
> > > Parkinson-group based on rhythm-based principles.
> > >    Your formulation "the brain connects us with the Universe through
> > > detecting vibrations and rhythms" clearly harmonizes with our
conclusion
> > > about great planetary and cosmogonic importance of the rhythms
carrying
> > > the reasoning in the Universe, see also the comment after your point
1.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "S.J.Abas" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >To: Vello Reeben <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >CC: [log in to unmask]
> > > >Subject: Re: on a causal theory of PD
> > > >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:08:35 +0100
> > > >
> > > >Hello Vello Reeben,
> > > >
> > > >You ask Tom and the whole list WHY your they paid so little attention
> > >to
> > > >Jan Abas's ideas (23.Dec. 2001). I will tell you why:
> > > .............
> > > >
> > > >Although it is a waste of time, just in case there are one or two who
> >might
> > > >benefit, I will summarize my message.
> > > ............
> > > >
> > > >There is not a shadow of doubt in my mind that Parkinson can be dealt
> >with
> > > >highly effectively, provided you adopt the following strategy:
> > > >
> > > >1. Put the mind/body model in the garbage bin and adopt a brain
centred
> > > >model of self.
> > >
> > > V.R.: I can add here that serious physics and astrophysics when
> > > discussing with an admiring the so called "anthropic principle" (all
the
> > > basic physical constants being just such as to allow an appearance of
> > > intelligent observer) has created a thinking (in Estonia shared by
> > > astronomers Undo Uus and Enn Kasak) that our world is hierarchic and
> > > communication between the great levels takes place by means of such
> >fields
> > > which function in our reasoning, i.e., by means of brain waves.
> > >   Our (mathematically strict) theory of the galactic rhythms gives a
> >further
> > > confirmation about the real uniqueness of the EEG beta waves: in the
> >huge
> > > 10^30 range of integers there exist only 304 highly composite numbers
N,
> > > only 16 (!) of them are at the same time near-quadratic (N=a^2) in the
> >zone
> > > of 1% deviation and 2 of those 16 are just the EEG beta waves. And
these
> > > beta waves demonstrate a further uniqueness: the standing wave length
of
> > > them equals to the diameter of the small planets. And the life in the
> > > Universe is said to be exist just on small planets and satellites of
the
> > > great planets.
> > > Thus, Jan, you are not alone with your ideas.
> > >
> > > J.A.: >2. Maximize oxygenated blood flow to the whole brain by
> > >exercising
> > > not only the motor brain, but also the sensory brain, the >limbic
> >(feeling)
> > > brain, the imaginative brain and the memory storing >brain.
> > >
> > > V.R.: Excellent. Just to the point. In our world based on the dualism
> > > of particles and waves and being in everlasting circulation under the
> > > principles of INFORMATIONAL OPTIMUM "the intelligent observer", our
> > > reasonable organism, will be stable then if we are tied to our
> >environment
> > > through a MAXIMUM of possible ways, through thousends of evolutonary
> > > micropaths, including all of our physical and mental channels and all
> >our
> > > visible and unvisible senses.
> > >     Our theory of the main groups of the physiological rhythms and of
> > > the main risk (excessive 11) and defence quantum numbers (lacking 23
and
> > > 37) for the PD can give here some more detailed hints for a search of
> >ways
> > > to regain the course of the PD-process.
> > >   By means of EXERCISING it is rather difficult to influence the
> > > N(23)-rythms (which theoretically exist in the range of 30 hours to 4
> >min)
> > > as  they regulate the processes in the autonomic (uncontrollable by
our
> > > will) system of the organism. However, maybe we still can influence
the
> > > N(23)-rhythms, for instance, weakened by PD peristaltic movements in
the
> > > digestion tract, indirectly, through the biophysical mechanisms of
> >molecular
> > > resonance? It is worth of trying.
> > >      All the more is important to pay full attention to the other
group
> >of
> > > defence-type rhythms, to the N(37)-rhythms, where we CAN use the
> > > excercise-based stimulation strategy.
> > >   That is just you have done in your WHOLE brain activation strategy!
> > >   I am really glad to learn that such strategy works, has been proved.
> > >   Our theory can give here some details which may be of interest to
you.
> > >   The ideal, informationally optimal N(37)-rhythms, based on the 18
> >existing
> > > N(37)-group Ramanujan numbers, exist in the range of 12 to 1400 Hz,
that
> >is
> > > in the range of EEG beta, gamma and higher waves. The EEG theta wave
has
> >a
> > > small 2.8% deviation, the alpha wave a 5.7% deviation, the delta wave
a
> >32%
> > > deviation.
> > >
> > > J.A.:>3. Exploit the redundancy and plasticity of the brain. Identify
> > >loss
> > > of functionality and use rhythm to regain functionality.
> > >
> > > V.R.: When functionality is weakened or lost in the range of
> >N(23)-rhythms
> > > (1.25 days..4 min) we may not find a rhythm-based method for the
regain.
> > >
> > > J.A.:>4. Encourage neuro-genesis through novel experience, social
> > > >interactions, learning (I predict that learning new songs, new dance
> >and
> > > >new languages would be particularly effective) and aerobic >exercise.
> > >
> > > V.R.: Excellent. There is evidence that through the rhythms all the
> >living
> > > creatures are interconnected. Maybe being active together with dogs,
> >horses,
> > > ponies, donkies may also be useful here? Thus, a possible efficiency
of
> > > riding should be tested.
> > >
> > > J.A.:>5. Eat an anti-oxidant rich neuro-protective/neuro-generative
> > >diet.
> > >
> > > V.R.: It is quite possible that there does exist more SPECIFIC dietary
> > > type remedies based on the molecular resonance and knowledge of
quantum
> > > number risk and defence factors. It seems to me that like the drug
> > > designers start from the main biochemical mediators involved in
genesis
> >of
> > > the PD, the future "food designers" will probably start from such
> > > foodstuffs which demonstrate certain PD-depending peculiarities.
> > > I suggest here that the usual salt (NaCl) when enriched with the
(37)Cl
> > > isotope (Cl has two isotopes, 75.5% of (35)Cl and 24.5% of (37)C) may
> >help
> > > to regain the PD process as then both bioelements will have protective
> >type
> > > mass numbers 23 and 37. Who dares to start the race for testing it?
> > > Somehow I can encourage them: in the case of essential tremor a use of
> > > moderate alchohol (ethanol - M = 46=2*23) is accepted by MD-s as well.
> >The
> > > domain rhythm of comparatively mild ET, as identified by us, is also
> > > characterized by a lack of the prime divider 23:
> > > 2*2*2*2*2*3*3*5*7*7*11*13*17*19*-*29*31.
> > >
> > > J.A.:>6. Minimize dependence on drugs.
> > >
> > > J.A.:>7. If you have reached a low stage and suffer from depression
> > >then
> > > use an electric muscle stimulator and a brain wave machine as the
> > >starting
> > > point. Never give up. Take charge of your own destiny and >treatment.
> > > >Each brain is unique. Don't rely on gurus, masters, doctors, experts,
> > > >therapists. Treat them with no more respect than you would a plumber.
> > > >Instead seek wisdom through universal principles and seek inspiration
> > > >through those who achieve what the experts say is impossible.
> > > >
> > > >If you do the above then you can kick PD firmly in the teeth as I
have
> > > > >done.
> > >
> > > V.R.: Here I am not so pessimistic. I have met in my life several
health
> > > crises and every time seen that physicians really try to give their
> >best.
> > > Another thing is that existing today medical theory and therapy may
seem
> > > after some time like the medieval mercury (Hg) drugs etc. seem to us
> >now.
> > >   I think that in real life there well may arise situations where one
> >should
> > > dare to take his health for his own responsibility. Without
accusations.
> > > Today internet can help us a lot.
> > >   As for your meaning that the treatment of parkinsonism which is on
> >offer
> > > today is barbaric and causes unnecessary suffering on a gargantuan
scale
> >I
> > > have to confess that I myself have been indirectly guilty in an
> >escalation
> > > of the stereotaxic thermo-coagulation anti-tremor method in Estonia
and
> > > Baltic republics as MD-s placed an order and we (a colleage of mine
and
> >me)
> > > developed an electronic device for that.
> > > Maybe this has somehow influenced  my present turn to a search of less
> > > rough cybernetic methods.
> > >
> > > >Thanks Vello.
> > > >
> > > >Jan Abas
> > >
> > > Thanks Jan
> > >
> > > Vello Reeben
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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