Frank, I don't save everything posted here as you must do, however, wasn't it you who said that you weren't going to post re: politics for two weeks?  Maybe I've lost track of time, entirely possible.  Father ill, mother having another cancer surgery, daughter with school issues, uncooperative spouse.  Maybe two weeks have passed...

You quoted below:
"Can someone tell me why it's wrong to lie about getting a blowjob (or a thousand) -- who cares?  (Please note:  I was very upset that Clinton lied to his wife and his country).  And why is it OK, all right, totally cool to lie to the American people, the service men and women AND their parents, etc, etc, ad nauseum about the reasons for going to war? And now, in case you haven't heard, we are apparently going to Haiti.  Lovely." (posted Feb 29th)"

For the record, I am the one who said that.  How is stating facts about whether or not someone lied (and please note, I did not discriminate based on political affiliation) being disrespectful?  Am I being disrespectful of my child if I catch her lying to me and I call her on it?

In any event, why are you still berating the group for this?  It seems to me that you are the one carrying on this conversation, practically alone at this point.  I just don't get it.

Carrie

In a message dated 3/11/2004 7:50:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, FrankandTeri <[log in to unmask]> writes:

>Murray's and Linda's posts are very appropriate and informative.  I read
>them as many others do. I never call into question the actions or postings
>of Murray or Linda.  They present them without editorial postings and
>disrespectful comments regarding beliefs or politics of others.
>
>They do not add their own political comments questioning our presidents
>capabilities and motives.  They do not lump people with different beliefs
>into a group you referred to as "taking us back to the middle ages."  It is
>comments like that I find that offensive as many others do and they reduce
>the effectiveness of this list a source of information and support.  This is
>a multinational list and the dominance of US politics and the interjection
>of political commentary is sure to alienate, offend and divide this list.
>
>A posting on this board dated Feb 28th, 2004 had the subject line. "FW: Bush
>has declared war on the majority of American citizens"  this was followed by
>the first line of the post which was "President Bush has declared war on the
>health and well-being of all
>Americans!"  That was followed by additional political commentary and
>ramblings and additional negative characterization of the president.  That
>was then followed by an article commenting on some appointment the president
>made to a bioethics panel.
>
>THAT POSTING WAS ALL IT TOOK TO EVOKE A CALL TO ARMS AGAINST PRESIDENT BUSH
>AND ALSO EVOKE AND UNDERSTANDABLE DEFENSE AGAINST THSI TYPE OF POLITICAL
>POSTING.
>
>Following that posting I immediately responded and asked for a return to the
>purpose of this board and for people to please refrain from posting
>outrageous political comments.  Following this.  There were additional
>comments.   Here are a few:
>"here it is clear that THIS person, (Bush) regardless of party affiliation,
>is an enemy and a threat to our lives and must be opposed. Thanks for having
>the guts to say it. (posted Feb 29th)
>"Thank God it is a democracy. And you should know what to do in Nov4
>election." (posted Feb29th)
>"I just sent this on to my Mormon cousin who opposes stem cell research.
>Her son died of cystic fibrosis and he rejected the LDS church.  But God
>apparently told her something different than he did Orrin Hatch, Mormon Utah
>senator who supports it."  (posted Feb 29th)
>"Can someone tell me why it's wrong to lie about getting a blowjob (or a
>thousand) -- who cares?  (Please note:  I was very upset that Clinton lied
>to his
>wife and his country).  And why is it OK, all right, totally cool to lie to
>the American people, the service men and women AND their parents, etc, etc,
>ad
>nauseum about the reasons for going to war?   And now, in case you haven't
>heard, we are apparently going to Haiti.  Lovely." (posted Feb 29th)
>"The most sinister aspect of the Bush administration is that he "Speaketh
>with forked tongue." (posted Feb 29th)
>
>AT THIS POINT SEVERAL MEMBERS POSTED THAT WE SHOULD REFRAIN FROM THESE TYPE
>OF COMMENTS AND RETURN TO THE MISSION OF THIS BOARD.  NONE OF THESE POSTINGS
>WERE MADE IN A NEGATIVE FASHION.  THEY CALLED FOR A RETURN TO THE MISSION
>AND TOPIC.  HERE IS WHAT FOLLOWED:
>
>"here is a litle line i heard lately. Clinton lied and Hillery cried George
>W lied and People Died" (posted March 1)
>"But now scientists are telling us there may be hope through stem cell
>research for those who suffer from incurable disreases and our President
>either
>because of ignorance or wanting to cater to his right wing base is opposing
>it. There is no excuse for these kinds of medieval actions.  Shame on him.
>I'd
>like to see how this former party boy, Johnny-come-lately to Jesus would do
>withPD." (posted March 1)
>"I will take a beating too, but remember  Bush has no brain." (posted March
>1)
>"If they have their way, even if there is a stem-cell based cure is
>developed in a foreign country, if any of the Americans get stem cell
>therapy, they will be subjected to criminal action when they return to
>America! "Bush has declared war on the majority of American citizens!" is an
>understatement.  They are working against the well being of humanity at
>large, both the present and the future generations!"  (posted March 1)
>"I am with you.  I am mad as hell with Bush."  (posted March 2)
>
>AT THIS POINT THOSE WHO SUGGESTED WE GET BACK ON TOPIC AND REFRAIN FROM
>POLITICAL COMMENTARY WERE ATTACKED AS BEING AGAISNT FREE SPEACH.
>"well said......and agree with you 100 percent no individual should be
>patronized and censored for expressing relevant political
>opinion/knowledge/feelings.... related to finding a cure for this horrendous
>disease.  Let's not be blind.... it's a real political battle... continue to
>speak your heart and mind.. your heard....and I thank you" (posted March 2)
>"...  my memory re Bush's actions is long like his lies,  and I'm really
>hoping  I live long e enough to vote for Kerry." (posted March 3)
>"II agree  with ... re role of govt.  It takes the big bucks of the
>government to really wage war on incurable diseases.  Those $ are going to
>Iraq and
>this monumental deficit. (how did that happen?)" (posted March 3)
>
>IT WENT DOWN FROM THERE DETERIORATING INTO US CAMPAIGN 2004.
>
>Once again I will call for all to refrain from posting political commentary
>here.  It will enflame and will understandably evoke response.  I provided
>this listing of comments so that people could once again realizes the
>difference between posting relevant information in the manner that Murray
>and Lind do and the enflaming political spin and commentary that people
>sometimes post here.
>
>Let's please just end this.
>
>Love and respect for all
>
>Frank
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>We can reach that understanding when we have open discussions on topic
>without introducing politics.  When one person introduces politics another
>feels compelled to respond in kind.  This leads to escalation and dilution
>of the effectiveness of this board.
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rayilyn Brown" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:16 PM
>Subject: unfertilized eggsSCNT/Frank
>
>
>> Frank
>>
>> i believe you stated in one of your posts that unfertilized eggs do not or
>> cannot reproduce.  An unfertilized egg and one's own  DNA is the old "good
>"
>> news about SCNT.  This doesn't mean you have to or will change your
>opinion of
>> SCNT.
>>
>> Being simplistic is different from simply missinig the point, which I
>think
>> you have done.  Isn't his how  Dolly the sheep was cloned?  Someone
>correct  me
>> if I am wrong.
>>
>> Murray's and LInda's posts are not their own opinons.  They have done the
>> hard leg work of finding everything ever written about these subjects.
>Your
>> local paper probably carried South Korea's success in first stages of
>therapeutic
>> cloning.
>>
>> I think it is very improtant that we have an elementary understanding of
>the
>> science.   If we on this List know what we are talking about maybe we can
>> reach that atmosphere of love, respect, thoughtfullness,etc. you speak of.
>> Ray
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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