----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick McGirr" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Moral certainty


> Thank you, Ray,
>
> My li'l attempt at being a profound ponderer was blown away by your
> few words that say it all.
>
> Life does seem just that transitory.
>
> In 'Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy (Douglas Adams), without notice,
> the earth is bulldozed to make way for a new, intergalactic
> superhighway.
>
> The mystery keeps me going.  Things we don't know.  After you've been
> around awhile, it ceases to be about looking pretty, being successful,
> comfortable, fame, fortune, power.  Those things we know about.  They
> are more transitory than life itself.  It's the unknown that attracts
> people of every belief.  And we've only scratched the surface.
>
> Have a good day.
> Rick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 1:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Moral certainty
>
>
>> Rick
>> I like  the medieval  mystic Meister  Eckhardt's little  story about
> life
>> being like a bird flying into a  room from where we don't  know and
> out the
>> window to we don't know where either
>> Ray
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rick McGirr" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 6:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: Moral certainty
>>
>>
>> > Well...
>> >
>> > In the times when John's Revelation was written, man had no idea
> that
>> > we are flying thru space on a tiny speck of dust, on the outer arm
> of
>> > a spiral galaxy, in a universe that has uncounted millions of
>> > galaxies.  Further, his prediction of a fiery conflagration as the
>> > last chapter of earth's history will only come true if enough of
> us
>> > believe the story.  But if it happens, WWIII on earth will be an
>> > indiscernable blip on the energy scope for most of the universe.
>> >
>> > Science doesn't know much more than John about the end of the
>> > universe.  We are like travelers who woke up in the middle of a
> bus
>> > trip to find our bus has busted the guardrail and is airborne.
> We're
>> > trying to figure out what happened.  But at least we are not
> jumping
>> > to conclusions.
>> >
>> > Is science uncommon?  It's becoming moreso in these days of
> religious
>> > fervor.  But it shouldn't be.  People don't know it, but we all
> use
>> > the scientific method several times a day.  But there's a point at
>> > which people's beliefs get in the way, and the scientific method
> is
>> > abandoned, in order to avoid the pain of discovery.
>> >
>> > I think it is wise to have assumptions, rather than set-in-stone
>> > beliefs.  I try, humbly, to live each day based on the
> preponderance
>> > of evidence, to put it clumsily.
>> >
>> > That's a little of what I think.  What do you think?
>> >
>> > Enjoy!
>> > Rick McGirr
>> > Email: [log in to unmask]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:46 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Moral certainty
>> >
>> >
>> >> Rick:
>> >>
>> >> What is scientific about common sense?
>> >>
>> >> By definition it is only common.
>> >>
>> >> Science and religion do agree that the
>> >> end of the "she-bang" will be rather warm.
>> >>
>> >> What do you think?
>> >>
>> >> Ned
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Rick McGirr" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 2:13 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Moral certainty
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > As a matter of fact, I take great comfort in the fact that my
>> > beliefs
>> >> > are verifiable, and refutable, through the scientific method
> (also
>> >> > known as common sense).  There is nothing truly permanent in
> the
>> >> > universe, including the whole she-"bang" itself.  And that is
> the
>> > true
>> >> > source of humility.
>> >> >
>> >> > Rick
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 1:59 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: Moral certainty
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Ray:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Reasonable doubt; moral certainty
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  When one is "beyond doubt" or an issue has been settled
> "beyond
>> >> > doubt," it
>> >> >> means that certainty has been established to such a degree
> that
>> >> > there can be
>> >> >> no question whatsoever of the truth. On almost every question,
>> > the
>> >> > only
>> >> >> people who claim to be 100% beyond doubt are gods, egotists,
> and
>> >> > fanatics.
>> >> >> Mature people generally allow for the possibility, however
> slim,
>> >> > that what
>> >> >> they Know for Certain may be disproved.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> REASONABLE DOUBT -- ".refers to the degree of certainty
> required
>> > of
>> >> > a juror
>> >> >> before he or she can make a legally valid determination of the
>> > guilt
>> >> > of a
>> >> >> criminal defendant.The term doesn't require that the evidence
> be
>> > so
>> >> > clear
>> >> >> that no possibility of error exists; it means that the
> evidence
>> > must
>> >> > be so
>> >> >> conclusive that all reasonable doubts are removed from the
> mind
>> > of
>> >> > the
>> >> >> ordinary person. See also moral certainty."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "MORAL CERTAINTY -- certainty beyond a reasonable doubt; a
>> >> > conviction based
>> >> >> on persuasive reasons and excluding doubts that a contrary
>> >> > conclusion can
>> >> >> exit. A juror is said to be morally certain of a fact when he
> or
>> > she
>> >> > would
>> >> >> act in reliance upon its truth in matters of greatest
> importance
>> > to
>> >> > himself
>> >> >> or herself."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "REASONABLE MAN (OR PERSON) -- a phrase used to denote a
>> >> > hypothetical person
>> >> >> who exercises qualities of attention, knowledge, intelligence
> and
>> >> > judgment
>> >> >> that society requires of its members for the protection of
> their
>> > own
>> >> >> interests and the interests of others."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ned
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:11 PM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Moral certainty
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Moral  certainty is the cause  of  wars,  bigotry,
> intolerance
>> > and
>> >> > much
>> >> >> > suffering.  The person who is  certain  he  is right about
> as
>> > yet
>> >> >> > unanswerable  questions is a tremendous obstacle to
> progress.
>> >> > Education
>> >> >> > teaches  you  how much  you don't  know and defines the
>> >> > boundaries of
>> >> >> > your
>> >> >> > knowledge.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My education tells me a cell is a cell and there is  good
>> > reason
>> >> > to call
>> >> >> > it a cell, not a  person.  I need  to hear some good reasons
>> > why
>> >> > a cell
>> >> >> > is
>> >> >> > a  person to change my mind, not ooh  don't  name-call.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Rayilyn Brown, MA  major History. minor Philosophy, UCLA
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:25 PM
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Don:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority.
> The
>> >> > more
>> >> >> >> uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows
> precisely
>> > what
>> >> > is
>> >> >> >> right
>> >> >> >> and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has
>> > been
>> >> > the work
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men
> who
>> >> > have
>> >> >> >> whooped
>> >> >> >> them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man
> is
>> >> > always
>> >> >> >> skeptical and tolerant.
>> >> >> >> -- H. L. Mencken, Minority Report (1956)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Ned
>> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >> From: "Don Mckinley" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:32 PM
>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
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>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
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