This is from the transcrpt of the 2004 Congressional hearing held by 
sen. Brownback on stem cell research. Dr. Levesque who performed the 
autogolous adult stem cell transfer on Dennis Turner was questioned 
at the end of the meeting by Sen. Ron Wyden about embryonic stem cell 
research and the need to change federal policy .... 

FDCH Political Transcripts
July 14, 2004 Wednesday
TYPE: COMMITTEE HEARING
COMMITTEE: SCIENCE AND TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE, SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY 
AND SPACE SUBCOMMITTEE

SUBCOMMITTEE: SENATE COMMERCE

WYDEN:  Dr. Levesque, I want to ask you, though, a question with 
respect to Parkinson's and this whole matter of embryonic stem cells 
being used in research.

When I asked you earlier about the comparison of adult stem cells and 
embryonic stem cells, you said -- and I appreciate your candor -- 
that you had not done work with respect to embryonic stem cells, and 
that to me was important. It may not be important to others, but that 
was important to me in terms of the comparison and particularly given 
the fact that you'd been pretty critical in your testimony of 
embryonic stem cell research.

My question to you is, a lot of advocates for cures to Parkinson's, a 
lot of the organizations, would like to see embryonic stem cells used 
to help pursue cures in this area, at least that is my understanding. 
Given that, do you at any point plan to try, even for the purpose of 
comparison, since you are making these statements about adult stem 
cell lines versus embryonic stem cells, do you at any point plan to 
even try to have some patients assisted with embryonic stem cells so 
that at least you could back up the kind of statement you made in 
your testimony today?

LEVESQUE: All right. Let me comment to the first statement. My 
testimony is critical from our aspect of the perception and benefit 
of cell therapy in general. Not only embryonic, but also adult. We 
have to understand where this type of therapy is in relation with 
other type of therapy that I've mentioned that in my testimony as 
well.

And as I mentioned, other avenues are potentially viable and 
successful beyond the cell therapy. So I was critical of not only 
this type of embryonic cell therapy, there are things that we don't 
know. There is a lot of noise and push to move on to embryonic stem 
cell therapy, but it is unknown what are the safety issues and 
benefit issues using the stem cells, the embryonic stem cells.

I agree, we need to do more research, we need to compare both types 
of cells, because the bottom line is that the embryonic stem cells 
will use the same pathways that the adult neural stem cell line will 
use to become differentiated neuron.

So the embryonic stem cell can be used to become all kind of tissue, 
but you have to understand that the pathway to create the bottom 
neurons will be the same that we use for the adult neural stem cells.

The risk and benefit of each of these types of therapies has to be 
evaluated.

The approach I use has the benefit to be autologous, it's the same 
tissue than the patient, whereas the embryonic cells, these are cells 
derived from other patients, we don't know the risks of immune 
rejections using this tissue. From other type of research we know 
that there is an immune reactions when we implant cells or foreign 
tissue in the brain.

So there are ways to evaluate and minimize these types of rejections. 
One company is encapsulating these cells with some type of a 
substance supposedly to minimize this immune reaction. Perhaps the 
nuclear cell transplant technology will also minimize the risk of 
rejection. We don't know. We need to do more research.

WYDEN: Well, again, with all due respect, your testimony is quite 
critical of embryonic stem cell research and it is not critical of 
adult stem cell research. And the reason I asked you the question 
about whether at some point you would be willing to look at embryonic 
stem cells for the treatment of Parkinson's is I think that would 
certainly, in my own view as a legislator who spends a lot of time on 
science issues, that would be relevant to me.

LEVESQUE: Well, I think, if I can interrupt, I think the current 
approved cell lines are inadequate to study these questions and 
obviously...

WYDEN: Do you favor changing the federal government's policy?

LEVESQUE: I think if the federal government...

WYDEN: That's a yes or no question.

LEVESQUE: Yes.

WYDEN: Do you favor changing the administration policy on stem cell 
research?

LEVESQUE: No. Don't change the policy. The policy is approving the 
cell. We have some cell lines that have been approved for research. 
However, these cell lines are inadequate. We need new cell lines. So 
yes, we need to add more cell lines to the current cell lines to 
answer these specific questions.

WYDEN: Where would they come from?

LEVESQUE: Well, these have to be obtained from embryonic IVF clinic, 
there are discarded tissue, or with the somatic nuclear transfer 
using an ovum from a donor.

WYDEN: And you think all this can be done without changing federal 
law.

LEVESQUE: We need to change the restriction on these cell lines, 
definitely.

FAJT: I agree.

WYDEN: All right. So, I think we're hearing something significant 
here.

Dr. Levesque, you want to change federal policy on stem cell research.

Susan, you want to change federal policy on stem cell research.

Mr. Turner, do you think federal policy ought to be changed? Just 
based on what you know.

TURNER: I would base my opinion on what Dr. Levesque said, because of 
his education. I am educated as a mechanical and electrical engineer, 
so I don't have the basis of the research to make that kind of 
decision.

WYDEN: Extra points for candor.
...I am here because I want to change federal policy, because I think 
there can be a lot more people like these three wonderful witnesses 
that are at the table. And to do it, we've got to change federal 
policy to take the shackles off our scientists and let them do what 
they were trained to do, which is be scientific advocates.

They weren't trained to do politics. They don't have election 
certificates. They were trained to be scientists. And the federal 
government has held them back, and it's wrong, and that is why I, and 
I think a lot of legislators of both political parties want to change 
it.

Rees Jenkins <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Here's one thing I got from Googling "Dennis Turner" Parkinson's -
Duke.  The best that can be said about Turner's miracle treatment is 
that it's a one-time thing, and the connection between the adult stem 
cells and Turner's improvement is not known.  If I had time, I would 
check (Google) Dr. Levesque.  Why is he (for all I know) not pursuing 
the adult stem cell treatment.

Sorry.  I have a colonoscopy tomorrow morning, and I have to run!  :)

Rees

=============

Given at a Science, Technology, and Space Hearing:
Adult Stem Cell Research 
Wednesday, July 14 2004 - 2:30 PM - SR - 253  
 
The Testimony of
Dr. Dennis Turner 
, 
 
Thank you, Chairman Brownback, for your interest in Parkinson’s 
Disease, in my treatment by Dr. Levesque, and in my hopes and 
concerns for the future. 

For fourteen years I’ve had Parkinson’s Disease. This 
irreversible disease involves the slow destruction of specialized 
cells in the brain, called Dopamine Neurons. By early 1991 I suffered 
extreme shaking of the right side of my body, stiffness in my gait 
and movements. After some years of medication, I developed 
fluctuation and poor response to Sinemet. This made daily activities 
needing the coordinated use of both hands hard or impossible, such as 
putting in contact lenses. My disability prevented me from using my 
right arm. 

Other than my Parkinson’s symptoms I was physically very active and 
fit. Because of this Dr. Levesque felt that I’d be a good candidate 
for an experimental treatment. He explained that he would take a very 
small tissue sample from my brain, removing its adult neural stem 
cells. He would then multiply and mature these cells into Dopamine 
Neurons, then inject these cells back into the left side of my brain. 
He proposed treating only the left side because it controls the right 
side of the body, the side with the most severe Parkinson’s 
symptoms. 

Dr Levesque did not tell me that this treatment would permanently 
cure my condition. Science has yet to learn what causes Parkinson’s 
Disease, much less how to remove it. However, since this cell-
replacement approach had never been tried in a human patient we hoped 
for the best. And since my only other realistic alternative was to 
continue growing worse until I eventually died, I decided to have the 
surgical procedures in 1999, one to remove the tissue and another to 
inject the cells. I was awake for both procedures, under local 
anesthesia. 

Soon after having the cells injected my Parkinson’s symptoms began 
to improve. My trembling grew less and less, until to all appearances 
it was gone, only slightly reappearing if I became upset. Dr. 
Levesque had me tested by a Neurologist, who said he wouldn’t have 
known I had Parkinson’s if he had met me on the street. I was once 
again able to use my right hand and arm normally, enjoying activities 
that I given up hope of ever doing. 

Since being diagnosed with Parkinson’s Disease my condition had 
slowly, but continuously worsened. I can’t say with certainty what 
my condition would have become if Dr. Levesque had not used my own 
adult stem cells to treat me. But I have no doubt that because of 
this treatment I’ve enjoyed five years of quality life that I 
feared had passed me by. 

Last year, after four years of being virtually symptom free, my 
Parkinson’s symptoms began reappearing in my body’s left side. 
Today I have various degrees of trembling in both hands, although I 
feel that the left is slightly worse. Nevertheless, I wouldn’t 
hesitate for a second to have Dr. Levesque use my adult stem cells to 
treat me a second time, since in my case they were safe, effective, 
and involved no risk of rejection. 

Because of my improvements through Dr. Levesque’s treatment I’ve 
been able to indulge in my passion for big game photography these 
past five years. While on safari in 2001 I scrambled up a tree to 
avoid being run over by a Rhino. I swam in the South Atlantic with 
Great White Sharks. Two weeks ago I returned from Africa after 
photographing Cheetahs and Leopards in the wild. Here are a few 
examples of the pictures I took. They represent memories and 
experiences I feel I have Dr. Levesque to thank for. I came here to 
offer him my sincere gratitude, and to offer others with 
Parkinson’s a concrete reason for hope. 

This summarizes my history with Parkinson’s and the positive 
effects I experienced through a treatment that used my own adult stem 
cells. I’m very happy with its results and would dearly love to 
have a second treatment. 
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