Gee whiz, I've been really good about getting into arguments about politics
and religion on this listserv.  But I simply have to say, Ernesto, that
you'll have to go a lot farther in explaining just how Barack Obama is a
socialist, or how he's turning the US into a socialist state.  The rumor
mills like Fox Network's "unfair and out-of-balance" reporting, and
rabble-rousers like Rush Limbaugh (who calls himself an entertainer) and
like Redstate.org, have caused much misunderstanding and unnecessary
difficulty in discussing something as complex as how to better the
healthcare system.  For example, the marine in the first video you posted
did a great job spanking the polite congressman's ass til it was bright
pink, but he didn't have his facts straight, nor did he know his history
well.  Nazi Germany was absolutely not a socialist state.  It was a fascist
state, and Hitler made sure that only the industry owners that were loyal to
him would profit.  Nothing could resemble socialism less than the Third
Reich.  And the marine was apparently enraged about how the rep. phrased his
statement that you will have the option of keeping the current plan that
you're on.  But I'm not sure what he was mad about.  And of course the
neo-con media machine has this misguided marine on all the talk shows
nationwide, and they hammer home the scare tactics and misinformation.  

Introducing the govt. plan would hopefully serve to control skyrocketing
healthcare costs, and it would also provide for the many poor who can't
afford adequate healthcare.  Is America to be a place where we no longer
care for these poor folks?  Aren't they part of the American family?  I
would say that families are more than a little socialistic, do you see?  Can
you tell us why it would be bad for us to have more options, and why would
it be bad to introduce more competition in the healthcare and insurance
markets?  Can you tell us that those who can't afford healthcare should be
turned away?

These days, I have to be careful not to waste any pills, because my pharmacy
and my insurance co. is so tight with the refills that I might have to
actually run out before I can get any more.  There are some that I take
electively that I would like to get more of, but I can't because my
insurance only covers 4 pills per month. Four!  For more, on the open market
today I would pay $75 per pill! Anyway, without my wife's health insurance,
I certainly wouldn't be taking any meds for my PD, because I wouldn't be
able to afford the average $600 per bottle (times four medications,
refilling every 30 days) When I go to the doctor, he doesn't have time to
talk to me, because he has all his visits timed to so many minutes per
patient, and if I'm completing a sentence when the time runs out, too bad.
He's gone.  If there's anyone I would suspect of caring more about
controlling cost to maximize profit, it's the insurers and drug companies.
Many doctors feel compelled to limit the care they give their patients due
to the profit analysis that their medical group subjects them to.  The
Merck/GDNF fiasco is ample evidence of drug company hegemony and
indifference.  

If you are lucky enough to have your medical needs satisfied with your
present insurance, I am glad for you.  You are among the fortunate few.  The
rest of us look at the system now, and it looks to us like an oligarchy of
the corporations.

In other words, if you are afraid of rationed care and limited coverage,
look around.  That's the way it is today.  The monster called "Profit
Motive" has complete control of the healthcare system.  Obama's idea is to
change that somewhat.  Is this not a good thing?

Enjoy!
Rick McGirr

-----Original Message-----
From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ernesto Divo
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:07 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Bad Moon Rising

Small segment of the population...? Sir/madam, allow me to differ, I believe
you are confused and are trying to turn a political issue into a racial one.
It has nothing to do with race, rather, it has to do with the fact that our
president has done more in 8 months to turn our country into a socialist
state than Venezuela's Hugo Chavez has done in 10 yrs in that, now
socialist, South American country.  I know, I was born there and, also think
I know a little about this, our country, have been bleeding Red, White and
Blue for the past 40 yrs. As you probably are aware, my, your president's
ratings have been going down dramatically in the last few months, even us
democrats have turned away from supporting him, as issues, way too many to
enumerate here, have been exposed in the media and town meetings which
makes us older, disabled folks take a second look at these proposed very
expensive, socialist changes.

Below, a couple of videos for your perousal.

YouTube - Town Hall Meeting with U.S. Congressman Brian
Baird<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rRE5UK6NQU&feature=player_em>

http://www.freemarketcure.com/brainsurgery.php

Enjoy,

Ernesto




On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:25 AM, (Stacey) (Collins)
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> WOW
>
>
>
>
> Thank  God for the second amendment
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ernesto Divo <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:16 pm
> Subject: Re: Bad Moon Rising
>
>
>
>  If ever there was any doubt, this removes it all.
>
> Gotta read it all, hits the nail right on the head...
> *This is the article that ran in Pravda on April 27 of this year.  The
> irony
> f this article appearing in the English edition of Pravda (Russian State
> ewspaper) defies description.*
>  **
>
> *American capitalism** gone with a whimper *
>
> American capitalism gone with a whimper *
> It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American
> descent
> nto Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop
of
>  passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people.
> True, the situation has been well prepared on and off for the past
century,
> specially the past twenty years. The initial testing grounds was conducted
> pon our Holy Russia and a bloody test it was. But we Russians would not
> ust roll over and give up our freedoms and our souls, no matter how much
> oney Wall Street poured into the fists of the Marxists.
> Those lessons were taken and used to properly prepare the American
> opulacefor the surrender of their freedoms and souls, to the whims of
> heir elites
> nd betters.
> First, the population was dumbed down through a politicized and
substandard
> ducation system based on pop culture, rather than the classics. Americans
> now more about their favo
> rite TV dramas then the drama in DC that directly
> ffects their lives. They care more for their "right" to choke down a
> cDonalds burger or a Burger King burger than for their constitutional
> ights. Then they turn around and lecture us about our rights and about our
> democracy". Pride blinds the foolish.
> Then their faith in God was destroyed, until their churches, all tens of
> housands of different "branches and denominations" were for the most part
> ittle more then Sunday circuses and their televangelists and top
Protestant
> ega preachers were more then happy to sell out their souls and flocks to
be
> n the "winning" side of one pseudo Marxist politician or another. Their
> locks may complain, but when explained that they would be on the "winning"
> ide, their flocks were ever so quick to reject Christ in hopes for earthly
> ower. Even our Holy Orthodox churches are scandalously liberalized in
> merica .
> The final collapse has come with the election of Barack Obama. His speed
in
> he past three months has been truly impressive. His spending and money
> rinting has been a record setting, not just in America 's short history
but
> n the world. If this keeps up for more than another year, and there is no
> ign that it will not, America at best will resemble the Weimar Republic
and
> t worst Zimbabwe ..
> These past two weeks have been the most breath taking of all. First came
> the
> nnouncement of a planned redesign of the American Byzantine tax system, by
> he very thieves who used it to bankroll their thefts, loses and sw
> indles of
> undreds of billions of dollars. These make our Russian oligarchs look
> ittle more then ordinary street thugs, in comparison. Yes, the Americans
> ave beat our own thieves in the shear volumes. Should we congratulate
> hem?
> These men, of course, are not an elected panel but made up of appointees
> icked from the very financial oligarchs and their henchmen who are now
> orging themselves on trillions of American dollars, in one bailout after
> nother. They are also usurping the rights, duties and powers of the
> merican congress (parliament) . Again, congress has put up little more
than
>  whimper to their masters.
> Then came Barack Obama's command that GM's (General Motors) president step
> own from leadership of his company. That is correct, dear reader, in the
> and of "pure" free markets, the American president now has the power, the
> elf given power, to fire CEOs and we can assume other employees of private
> ompanies, at will. Come hither, go dither, the centurion commands his
> inions.
> So it should be no surprise, that the American president has followed this
> p with a "bold" move of declaring that he and another group of unelected,
> hosen stooges will now redesign the entire automotive industry and will
> ven be the guarantor of automobile policies. I am sure that if given the
> hance, they would happily try and redesign it for the whole of the world,
> oo. Prime Minister Putin, less than two months ago, warned Obama and UK 's
> lair, not to follow the path to Marxism, it only leads to disaster.
> pparently, even though20we suffered 70 years of this Western sponsored
> orror show, we know nothing as foolish, drunken Russians, so let our
"wise"
> nglo-Saxon fools find out the folly of their own pride.
> Again, the American public has taken this with barely a whimper...but a
> freeman" whimper.
> So, should it be any surprise to discover that the Democrat controlled
> ongress of America is working on passing a new regulations that would give
> he American Treasury department the power to set "fair" maximum salaries,
> valuate performance and control how private companies give out pay raises
> nd bonuses? Senator Barney Frank, a social pervert basking in his
> omosexuality (of course, amongst the modern, enlightened American societal
> orm, as well as that of the general West, homosexuality is not only not a
> ooked down upon life choice, but is often praised as a virtue) and his
> arxist enlightenment, has led this effort. He stresses that this only
> ffects companies that receive government monies, but it is retroactive and
> aken to a logical extreme, this would include any company or industry that
> as ever received a tax break or incentive.
> The Russian owners of American companies and industries should look
> houghtfully at this and the option of closing their facilities down and
> leeing the land of the Red as fast as possible.. In other words, divest
> hile there is still value left.  The proud American will go down into his
> lavery without a fight, beating his chest and proclaiming to the world,
how
> ree he really is. The world will only snicker.
> *Stanislav
>  Mishin*C 1999-2009. <PRAVDA.Ru>. When reproducing our materials
> n whole or in part, hyperlink to PRAVDA.Ru should be made. The opinions
and
> iews of the authors do not always coincide with the point of view of
> RAVDA.Ru's editors.
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 4:15 AM, rayilynlee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > I don't know who the author of this piece is, except for the URL, but I
>  totally agree with it and can only beg you to read the bill, especially
> the
>  section that starts on page 425 re living wills.
>  http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
>  Peg Willocks had a great idea about us reading the bill.   Let's do it!!
>
>  I heard Glenn Beck try to cover his butt this past week in case we have
>  another Dr. Tiller killing.
>
>  Ray
>
>  Source:  http:/deepbraindiary.com
>
>  Bad Moon Rising
>  August 8, 2009, 9:18AM
>
>  What does it say about America when a small portion of the population
>  believes their president wants to kill them?
>
>  What does it say about this segment of the population when they sincerely
>  believe this ludicrous idea, even though they can't point to a THING in
> the
>  Obama health care reform plan that supports it?
>
>  What does it say about our country that people -- GOOD people who pay
> their
>  taxes and love their children and contribute to society in a positive way
>  --
>  are so willing to believe that an innocent plan to reimburse doctors for
>  having end-of-life discussions once every five years with patients who
>  REQUEST such a discussion mean
> s Obama will have "death panels" to decide
>  who
>  lives and who dies?
>
>  What does it say about a segment of our society when people with a vested
>  interest in maintaining the status quo can fool them into believing their
>  lie when a simple look at the proposed legislation would expose these
> lies?
>
>  Why is it easier for this segment of the population to believe their
>  president wants to smother them with pillows, rip babies from their
>  bellies,
>  and send those deemed "unproductive" to the gas chambers than it is for
>  them
>  to read the bill for themselves and come to a reasonable, logical
decision
>  of what is IN the bill... not what they are TOLD is in the bill?
>
>  What does it say about these so-called opinion leaders like Limbaugh and
>  Hannity and Beck and Dobbs and others who say Obama is a Nazi and the
>  health
>  care logo looks like a Nazi symbol and compare a plan to provide health
>  care
>  for those who can not afford it and those with pre-existing conditions
who
>  can not GET it to the HOLOCAUST -- the most evil act of man against man
in
>  the history of the planet?
>
>  I'm not afraid of Islamofascists.  I don't worry about isolated Muslim
>  terror cells causing acts of terrorism in America.  I don't fear
>  foreigners.
>  I fear these Americans who are willing to believe that their president
>  wants
>  to kill their grandmothers and their babies.  I fear these so-called
>  "patriots" who believe liars like Sarah Palin who tells them that Obama
>  wants=2
> 0to kill her Downs Syndrome baby.  I fear these
>  intellectually-challenged mouth-breathing shouting idiots, like Minnesota
>  Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann who believes Obama wants to kill ME
> because
>  I have Parkinson's disease.
>
>  Noise is noise.  Demonstrations are demonstrations.  But evil is
pervasive
>  and progressive.  First, they shout.  Then, they hit.  Then they damage
>  property.  Then... they start killing people.
>
>  That is what I fear.  Not some nameless, faceless Islamofascist with a
>  dirty
>  bomb.  I fear some right-wing lunatic with a high-powered rifle who will
>  try
>  to invalidate a legitimate election with a single bullet because the
> voices
>  on the radio TOLD him to.  I fear a group of self-styled "freedom
> fighters"
>  who -- inspired by Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann -- will pack a
rental
>  truck with fertilizer and diesel fuel and park it in front of ANOTHER
>  federal building and blow it up in the name of "Liberty."
>
>  And I'm not the only one who fears this.  The ultra-right wing Pajamas
>  Media
>  hate site, home for some of the most virulent, hate-filled commentary,
has
>  posted a boilerplate warning to those who would add a thought to the
>  comment
>  section...
>
>  Pajamas Media appreciates your comments that abide by the following
>  guidelines:
>
>  1. Avoid profanities or foul language unless it is contained in a
> necessary
>  quote or is relevant to the comment.
>  2. Stay on topic.
>  3. Disagree, but avoid ad-hominem attacks.
>  4. Hate speech is not tolerated he
> re.
>  5. Threats are treated seriously and reported to law enforcement.
>
>  These guidelines are very general and cannot cover every possible
>  situation.
>  Please don't assume that Pajamas Media management agrees with or
otherwise
>  endorses any particular comment. We reserve the right to filter or delete
>  comments or to deny posting privileges entirely at our discretion. If you
>  feel your comment was filtered inappropriately, please email us at
>  [log in to unmask]
>
>
>  They feel this will cover them from a liability standpoint in case
someone
>  takes seriously what they publish in their articles and decides to act on
>  it.  Stories like, "Obama wants to get your e-mail address if you
disagree
>  with him so he can persecute you."
>
>  When something bad happens and the pushing and shoving at the town halls
>  escaltes into real violence, and the unthinkable happens... you know what
> I
>  mean by that... these same people who have stoked the violence and fanned
>  it
>  and nurtured the hatred that led to it will scratch their heads in wonder
>  and tell you it wasn't their fault.  They were just "talking."  They were
>  just "expressing an opinion."
>
>  At some point, we have to ask ourselves when this constant fanning of
>  irrational hatred and paranoia and tweaking of the fear and emotions of
>  stupid people who fear the unknown and hate the fact that we have an
>  African
>  American as president equates to "shouting fire in a crowded theater."
>
>  And we'd better do it soon.
>
>  See more at
> http://deepbraindiary.com
>
>  Rayilyn Brown
>  Director AZNPF
>  Arizona Chapter National Parkinson Foundation
>  [log in to unmask]
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