I have to admit, I have never read The Federalist Papers and can't find the 
book in my library.  perhaps,  Charlie, you could quote some significant 
passages for us.  They were never among the required 600+ plus history book 
reading  list for my Masters, I guess and while teaching I pretty much 
taught the finished product itself and its history.

I  like Medicare -it along with my secondary  provided by the school 
district forced to give it to me by the teachers union, paid for my 2 DBSs - 
no paperwork at all.  You know how much a  DBS costs I am sure.  What kind 
of insurance paid for yours, Charlie?

I do read and watch ALL sides and I always have.

Ray

Rayilyn Brown
Director AZNPF
Arizona Chapter National Parkinson Foundation
[log in to unmask]

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Black Charles" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:52 AM
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Faux News

> My suggeestion is to listen and read as  much as you can from all sides. 
> With all the rhetoric flying around, thats hard to do.
>
> Some observaations:
> 1.We are headed for bankrupcy, high inflation will be the first indicator.
> 2. The Federal government has NO demostrated expertise in running big 
> programs. See the post offiice, VEterans health care and MEdicare  as 
> examples.
> 3. the CBO estimates that by 2015 (I think) the INTEREST ONLY on our debt 
> will be 306 BILLION per year.
>
>  Ray;
>
> the Constitution is a great document to be sure. I think   though that the 
> courts and the Congress have trampled states rights and the limitations 
> designed into it. One only needs to read the writings of our founding 
> fathers to become aware  of that!
>
> Charlie
>
> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, rayilynlee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> From: rayilynlee <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Faux News
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 2:20 AM
>> Tess
>>
>> my big argument with Glenn Beck of Faux News is that
>> he calls progressives socialists, communists, Marxists, etc
>> and condemns the movement in the early 20th century
>> that brought us the initiative, referendum and recall on the
>> state level, and on the national level the direct election
>> of senators, the vote for women, the FDA, etc.
>>
>> No one is calling him on his big distortion of the facts.
>>
>> Apparently lies work as people believe him. At a Tea
>> Party Rally today I saw a "Glenn Beck for President" sign.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> Rayilyn Brown
>> Director AZNPF
>> Arizona Chapter National Parkinson Foundation
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "tess owens" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:46 AM
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: Healthcare throughout the world
>>
>> > Thank you Ray! How refreshing, an informative and
>> useful article that
>> > addresses the health care issue, without the slanted
>> and derogatory right wing
>> > hype.
>> > My family appreciates your input on the list and how
>> you advocate for change!
>> >
>> >
>> > Big Thanks!
>> > hugs to you and Spike
>> > Tess
>> > ps
>> > regarding:
>> > "PT Barnum Was Right"
>> > News Hounds
>> > We watch FOX so you don't have to.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Fox News Proves That PT Barnum Was Right!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There is an old adage, attributed to PT Barnum, that
>> "there's a sucker born every minute." History informs
>> > us that it was spoken in connection with Barnum's
>> Cardiff Giant hoax.
>> > It seems that Fox News is a good example of Barnum's
>> wisdom as there
>> > was one such sucker born recently.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Earlier this week, I reported on
>> > Tennessee Democrat, Fred Hobbs, who suspected that
>> Barack Obama was
>> > connected to terrorism because he heard it on Fox
>> News. Well, it seems
>> > that in a letter of apology, to the Tennessee
>> Democratic Executive Committee, Mr. Hobbs realizes that he
>> got schnookered:
>> >
>> >
>> > "I was not as well prepared as I should have been when
>> speaking with reporters,
>> >
>> > and I should have taken more time to research Senator
>> Obama's positions. My
>> > comments did reflect questions I had after what I had
>> seen reported on
>> > Fox News, but I should have taken some time to check
>> the accuracy of
>> > what I saw on television before speaking publicly. My
>> statement that Senator Obama "may be terrorist-connected"
>> was incorrect, and I apologize for making it."
>> >
>> >
>> > Too bad other Fox viewers aren't checking for
>> accuracy; because, if
>> > they did, they would discover that they, too, are
>> being punked by a
>> > bunch of carnival barkers and clowns who, literally
>> speaking, represent
>> > the greatest "show" (hoax) on earth.
>> >
>> >
>> > Tip of the hat to Think Progress
>> >
>> > ;)
>> >
>> >
>> >> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:11:54 -0400
>> >> From: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: Re: Healthcare throughout the world
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >>
>> >> Thanks, Ray, for this informative article. I
>> think posts like this are
>> >> excellent because they focus on information and
>> informed commentary, rather
>> >> than regurgitation of hyped-up scare tactics and
>> orchestrated
>> >> misinformation. It is well for us to recheck
>> our facts from multiple
>> >> sources and be prepared to offer some rebuttal for
>> all the junk that is
>> >> flying around out there.
>> >>
>> >> Rick Mcgirr
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network
>> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> On Behalf Of rayilynlee
>> >> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:54 AM
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: Healthcare throughout the world
>> >>
>> >> Healthcare Facts
>> >>
>> >> By T.R. Reid
>> >>
>> >> Sunday, August 23, 2009
>> >>
>> >> <> As Americans search for the cure to what
>> ails our health-care system,
>> >> we've overlooked an invaluable source of ideas and
>> solutions: the rest of<>
>> >> the world. All the other industrialized
>> democracies have faced problems
>> >> like ours, yet they've found ways to cover
>> everybody -- and still spend
>> >> far less than we do.
>> >>
>> >> <> I've traveled the world from Oslo to
>> Osaka to see how other developed
>> >> democracies provide health care. Instead of
>> dismissing these models as<>
>> >> "socialist," we could adapt their solutions to fix
>> our problems. To do that,
>> >> we first have to dispel a few myths about health
>> care abroad:
>> >>
>> >> 1. It's all socialized medicine out there.
>> >>
>> >> <> Not so. Some countries, such as Britain,
>> New Zealand and Cuba, do provide
>> >> health care in government hospitals, with the
>> government paying the bills.<>
>> >> Others -- for instance, Canada and Taiwan -- rely
>> on private-sector
>> >> providers, paid for by government-run insurance.
>> But many wealthy<>
>> >> countries -- including Germany, the Netherlands,
>> Japan and Switzerland --
>> >> provide universal coverage using private doctors,
>> private hospitals and<>
>> >> private insurance plans. In some ways,
>> health care is less "socialized"
>> >> overseas than in the United <> States.
>> Almost all Americans sign up for
>> >> government insurance (Medicare) at age 65. In
>> Germany, Switzerland and the
>> >> Netherlands, seniors stick with<> private
>> insurance plans for life.
>> >> Meanwhile, the U.S. Department of Veterans
>> Affairs is one of the planet's
>> >> purest examples of government-run
>> >> health care.
>> >>
>> >> 2. Overseas, care is rationed through
>> limited choices or long lines.
>> >>
>> >> <> Generally, no. Germans can sign up for
>> any of the nation's 200 private
>> >> health insurance plans -- a broader choice than
>> any American has. If a<>
>> >> German doesn't like her insurance company, she can
>> switch to another, with
>> >> no increase in premium. The Swiss, too, can choose
>> any insurance plan in<>
>> >> the country.
>> >> In France and Japan, you don't get a choice
>> of insurance provider; you have
>> >> to use the one designated for your company or your
>> industry.<> But patients
>> >> can go to any doctor, any hospital, any
>> traditional healer. There no U.S.
>> >> -style limits such as "in-network" lists of
>> doctors or <>
>> >> "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any
>> doctor, you get treatment --
>> >> and insurance has to pay.<>Canadians have
>> their choice of providers. In
>> >> Austria and Germany, if a doctor diagnoses a
>> person as "stressed," medical
>> >> insurance pays for weekends at a health
>> spa.<>
>> >> <><> As for those notorious waiting
>> lists, some countries are indeed plagued
>> >> by them. Canada makes patients wait weeks or
>> months for nonemergency care,
>> >> as
>> >> a way to keep costs down. But studies by the
>> Commonwealth Fund and others
>> >> report that many nations -- Germany, Britain,
>> Austria -- outperform the<>
>> >> United States on measures such as waiting times
>> for appointments and for
>> >> elective surgeries. In Japan,
>> waiting times are so short that most
>> >> patients don't bother to make an appointment. One
>> Thursday morning in Tokyo,
>> >> I called the<> prestigious orthopedic clinic
>> at Keio University Hospital to
>> >> schedule a consultation about my aching
>> shoulder. "Why don't you just drop
>> >> by?" the receptionist said. That same afternoon, I
>> was in the surgeon's
>> >> office. Dr. Nakamichi<> recommended an
>> operation. "When could we do it?" I
>> >> asked. The doctor checked his computer and said,
>> "Tomorrow would be pretty
>> >> difficult. Perhaps some day next
>> week?"
>> >>
>> >> 3. Foreign health-care systems are inefficient,
>> bloated bureaucracies.
>> >>
>> >> <>Much less so than here. It may seem to
>> Americans that U.S.-style free
>> >> enterprise -- private-sector, for-profit health
>> insurance -- is naturally<>
>> >> the most cost-effective way to pay for health
>> care. But in fact, all the
>> >> other payment systems are more efficient than
>> ours. <>U.S. health insurance
>> >> companies have the highest administrative costs in
>> the world; they spend
>> >> roughly 20 cents of every dollar for
>> nonmedical<>costs, such as paperwork,
>> >> reviewing claims and marketing. France's health
>> insurance industry, in
>> >> contrast, covers everybody and spends about
>> 4<> percent on administration.
>> >> Canada's universal insurance system, run by
>> government bureaucrats, spends 6
>> >> percent on administration. In Taiwan, a<>
>> leaner version of the Canadian
>> >> model has administrative costs of 1.5
>> percent; one year, this figure
>> >> ballooned to 2 percent, and the opposition
>> <>parties savaged the government
>> >> for wasting money. The world champion at
>> controlling medical costs is
>> >> Japan, even though its <>aging
>> population is a profligate consumer of
>> >> medical care. On average, the Japanese go to
>> the doctor 15 times a year,
>> >> three times the U.S. rate. They<> have twice
>> as many MRI scans and X-rays.
>> >> Quality is high; life expectancy and recovery
>> rates for major diseases are
>> >> better than in the United<> States. And yet
>> Japan spends about $3,400 per
>> >> person annually on health care; the United
>> States spends more than $7,000.
>> >>
>> >> 4. Cost controls stifle innovation.
>> >>
>> >> <>False. The United States is home to
>> groundbreaking medical research, but
>> >> so are other countries with much lower cost
>> structures. Any American who's<>
>> >> had a hip or knee replacement is standing on
>> French innovation. Deep-brain
>> >> stimulation to treat depression is a Canadian
>> breakthrough. Many of the<>
>> >> wonder drugs promoted endlessly on American
>> television, including Viagra,
>> >> come from British, Swiss or Japanese labs.<>
>> Overseas, strict cost controls
>> >> actually drive innovation. In the United
>> States, an MRI scan of the neck
>> >> region costs about $1,500. In Japan, the<>
>> identical scan costs $98. Under
>> >> the pressure of cost controls, Japanese
>> researchers found ways to perform
>> >> the same diagnostic technique for
>> >> one-fifteenth the American price. (And Japanese
>> labs still make a profit.)
>> >>
>> >> 5. Health insurance has to be cruel.
>> >>
>> >> <> Not really. American health insurance
>> companies routinely reject
>> >> applicants with a "preexisting condition" --
>> precisely the people most<>
>> >> likely to need the insurers' service. They employ
>> armies of adjusters to
>> >> deny claims. If a customer is hit by a truck and
>> faces big medical bills,
>> >> the insurer's "rescission department" digs through
>> the records looking for<>
>> >> grounds to cancel the policy, often while the
>> victim is still in the
>> >> hospital. The companies say they have to do this
>> stuff to survive in a tough
>> >> business. Foreign health insurance
>> companies, in contrast, must accept
>> >> all<> applicants, and they can't cancel as
>> long as you pay your premiums.
>> >> The plans are required to pay any claim submitted
>> by a doctor or hospital
>> >> (or health spa), usually within tight time limits.
>> The big Swiss insurer<>
>> >> Groupe Mutuel promises to pay all claims within
>> five days. "Our customers
>> >> love it," the group's chief executive told me. The
>> corollary is that
>> >> everyone is mandated to buy insurance, to give the
>> plans an adequate pool of
>> >> rate-payers.<> The key difference is that
>> foreign health insurance plans
>> >> exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to
>> make a profit. The United
>> >> States is the only developed country that lets
>> insurance companies profit
>> >> from basic health coverage.<> In many ways,
>> foreign health-care models are
>> >> not really "foreign" to America, because our
>> crazy-quilt health-care system
>> >> uses elements of all of them. For Native Americans
>> or veterans, we're
>> >> Britain: The government<> provides health
>> care, funding it through general
>> >> taxes, and patients get no bills. For people who
>> get insurance through their
>> >> jobs, we're Germany:<> Premiums are split
>> between workers and employers, and
>> >> private insurance plans pay private doctors and
>> hospitals. For people over
>> >> 65, we're Canada:<> Everyone pays premiums
>> for an insurance plan run by the
>> >> government, and the public plan pays private
>> doctors and hospitals according
>> >> to a set fee<> schedule. And for the tens of
>> millions without insurance
>> >> coverage, we're Burundi or Burma: In the world's
>> poor nations, sick people
>> >> pay out of
>> >> pocket for medical care; those who can't pay
>> stay sick or die.
>> >>
>> >> <> This fragmentation is another reason that
>> we spend more than anybody else
>> >> and still leave millions without coverage. All the
>> other developed<>
>> >> countries have settled on one model for
>> health-care delivery and finance;
>> >> we've blended them all into a costly, confusing
>> bureaucratic mess.<> Which,
>> >> in turn, punctures the most persistent myth of
>> all: that America has "the
>> >> finest health care" in the world. We don't. In
>> terms of results,<> almost
>> >> all advanced countries have better national health
>> statistics than the
>> >> United States does. In terms of finance, we force
>> 700,000 Americans<> into
>> >> bankruptcy each year because of medical bills. In
>> France, the number of
>> >> medical bankruptcies is zero. Britain: zero.
>> Japan: zero. Germany: zero.
>> >>
>> >> <>Given our remarkable medical assets -- the
>> best-educated doctors and
>> >> nurses, the most advanced hospitals, world-class
>> research -- the United<>
>> >> States could be, and should be, the best in the
>> world. To get there, though,
>> >> we have to be willing to learn some lessons about
>> health-care administration
>> >> from the other industrialized democracies.
>> >>
>> >> > T.R. Reid, a former Washington Post reporter,
>> is the author of "The
>> >>
>> >> > Healing of America: A Global Quest for
>> Better, Cheaper, and Fairer > Health
>> >>
>> >> > Care," to be published Monday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Rayilyn Brown
>> >> Director AZNPF
>> >> Arizona Chapter National Parkinson Foundation
>> >> [log in to unmask]
>> >>
>> >>
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