LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for CASLL-L Archives


CASLL-L Archives

CASLL-L Archives


CASLL-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CASLL-L Home

CASLL-L Home

CASLL-L  July 1997

CASLL-L July 1997

Subject:

Re: big classes, writing, lecturing

From:

Marcy Bauman <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:56:19 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (75 lines)

On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Dr. Robert K. Irish wrote:

> But first, isn't the
> student who wants to impress the prof with a term paper simply
> understanding the rhetorical situation?  Rhetoric is to convince after
> all.  I see nothing wrong with this as a stated goal.

        Hmm, I dunno . . . I think you have to take this on a case by
case basis.  None of us would say that we want students to write term
papers to impress us; we want them to learn something and then write
about what they've learned.  Granted, it would be nice to be impressed
with what they've learned.  But one without the other isn't going to cut
it.

> I actually have
> more trouble with the student who sets up a desire to "research" which
> is so often an excuse for poorly thought out ideas and shoddy argument.

        Whenever I hear this line of reasoning I'm reminded of the
student I had a few years ago who wrote an absolutely _awful_ paper on
gays in the military.  Well, the paper was awful by any standards I
might've applied up until then: the student couldn't seem to decide
whether or not it was acceptable to him to allow openly gay people in the
military, and he had evidence from all over the rhetorical map to support
his non-position.  But what really disturbed me about the paper was that
I thought I could see where the student's confusion was coming from:
many of the ideas and points of view he'd expressed had been previously
expressed on the class discussion list, and he was clearly (to me,
anyway) attempting to reconcile the rhetorical and ideological positions
of his readers with his _own_ (very ill-defined) position.  He thought
that it might be okay to allow gays in the military, but he sure didn't
like the idea of homosexuality, and the paper was visible evidence of his
ideological struggle and the inconsistencies in his viewpoint which he'd not
yet worked out.

        And he wasn't _going_ to work them out in the fourteen weeks of
my class, either.  But if part of the goal of a liberal arts education is
to encounter new points of view and think about them seriously and
respectfully, that guy was well on the way to becoming educated.  He was
probably further along than some of the writers who'd expressed their
opinions in more polished form on the class discussion list.  If I'd been
forced to grade his paper, I'm sure the grade wouldn't have reflected
that assessment, and nothing I could have said would have conveyed it to
him, either.  Similarly, nothing I could say to the folks whose writing
was polished but whose thought was less ambitious could have convinced
_them_ of the importance of ambitious thought if they'd gotten an A on
their paper . . .

>         Actually, last term my Shakespeare students produced some amazing
> results out of their final term papers.  I think though that part of the
> reason for that was that I had a pretty thorough journal assignment
> through the year (no compromise there, but the endless reading and
> commenting almost killed me).

        Well, I think that it's possible to achieve a lot of the same
benefits from journals without killing yourself, Rob; you can have
students do the same kind of writing and responding in an on-line
discussion format, and you don't have to read and respond to all of it.
Students will lose something by not having your commentary, but they will
also gain a great deal by reading each others' journal entries and
responding back to their classmates.  And I don't think that's a lesser
gain: many students will probably get _more_ out of reading and
responding to each other than they will from a teacher's commentary.

Marcy

        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                        Marcy Bauman
         Writing Program, University of Michigan-Dearborn
              4901 Evergreen Rd, Dearborn, MI 48128
                      fax: 313-593-5552
                 http://www.umd.umich.edu/~marcyb
                      [log in to unmask]
        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

May 2023
February 2023
December 2022
November 2022
March 2022
September 2021
September 2020
August 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
September 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011, Week 1
January 2011
December 2010
October 2010
April 2010
February 2010
January 2010
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995
October 1995
September 1995
August 1995
July 1995
June 1995
May 1995
April 1995
March 1995
February 1995
January 1995

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager