Evidence to support Rick's position can be gleaned from
Weaver, Constance. Teaching Grammar in Context. Portsmouth: Boynton/Cook, 1996.
She looks at hundreds of studies from the past 50 years and concludes what
we all know to be true from our experience teaching writing: there is no
demonstrable connection between teaching writing and teaching grammar per
se. You might want to read Patrick Hartwell's "Grammar, Grammar, and the
Teaching of Grammar" (or something like that--I don't have it handy; maybe
someone else can find the citation?). Hartwell's point is that what John
calls grammar in his original post might be better described as
"editing"--teaching editing skills. That has it's place in a process model
of composition, but that place is toward the back rather than front and
center, in the context of ongoing writing rather than as rote exercises.
Roger Graves
At 05:01 PM 2/14/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Does anyone have any evidence that lecturing to students about writing
>produces significant development of their writing abilities? Or, in the
>case of the Brock courses, that this development significantly exceeds what
>they would have learned from just seminars, the writing practice, and
>individual feedback? Last I checked, which was a long time ago, I don't
>believe there was such evidence (just as there is lots of evidence that,
>whatever "common sense" may suggest, grammar drills do not significantly
>reduce "errors" in actual writing). When I teach writing courses, I do
>sometimes "lecture," i.e., talk for 15 minutes straight explaining
>something or other, but I believe my successes turn on running the course
>as a workshop and that the students learn most from writing and getting
>various kinds of feedback (hence the workshop approach).
>
> One can always argue that something/anything is better than nothing.
>Given the budgetary bias in favour of large and larger classes, I would
>want to see positive evidence that lecturing can significantly improve
>actual writing.
>
>Rick
>
>
>
>At 07:33 PM 2/14/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>>Colleagues,
>>
>>What is your assessment of a writing programme offering not one but two
>>terms of lecture-hall-based, introductory-level, general writing instruction?
>>
>>Here's the situation: Two years ago, Brock University created two separate
>>one-term courses -- Introduction to Writing and Academic Writing -- which
>>students are offered in succession. The English department here is very
>>interested in keeping grammar prominent in the first course; the first is a
>>prerequisite for the second. Neither are compulsory for Brock students,
>>though that will change for students in at least one department.
>>
>>On the positive side, both courses offer students two hours of small
>>seminars per week, lead by experienced TAs who have advanced degrees in
>>literature. On the not-so-positive side, there is a one-hour lecture per
>>week to an audience that, next year, may be as high as 200. Is such a
>>situation reasonably within the range of acceptable Canadian practices?
>>
>>I know this list has had a go both at the lecture-hall teaching of writing
>>and at the conflation of writing with grammar. However, I also know there
>>are some one-term lecture-hall courses in Canada that do not have the
>>benefit of two seminar-hours per week with mature, experienced TAs. And,
>>of course, two terms of writing is presumably better than one.
>>
>>The English department here is facing program review in 2000-2001, and
>>writing is a new undertaking at Brock. How would you evaluate this? I
>>would be pleased to pass on your responses to our department chair.
>>All the best,
>>John
>>
>>/// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// /// ///
>>
>>John B. Killoran, PhD
>>Assistant Professor
>>Dept. of English Language and Literature
>>Brock University
>>St. Catharines, Ontario
>>L2S 3A1 Canada
>>
>>(905) 688-5550 ext.3886
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
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>
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>
Roger Graves, Associate Professor, DePaul University, Chicago
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