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I think the next step in this discussion is to look for information in sources such as bestiaries (noting where the manuscript is from, where it circulated, if possible) to see what is said about apes, if anything, and if their skins were used for any purposes, including costumes. Also, records/studies of the tanning industry in England to 1642: any evidence of ape skins? What about the wardrobe accounts for the royal households? Any ape skins there? That's all I can think of at this point. I would be very interested in knowing what others find out. Elza C. Tiner -----Original Message----- From: Alan Baragona [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:40 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "Apis skinns"? Possibly, but how many apes did Richard and later monarchs keep, and would something that rare really have been made available to guildsmen from the north? I do think, however, that the presence of apes in England, as well as their frequent iconographic use in manuscripts, makes it more likely that even rural communities were familiar with apes and would have recognized a cloth costume intended to look like ape skin. -----Original Message----- From: Tiner, Elza <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 4:36 PM Subject: Re: "Apis skinns"? >However, at some point the apes would die and their skins might be available >then, no? > >Elza C. Tiner > >-----Original Message----- >From: Baragona, Alan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 1:25 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: "Apis skinns"? > > >This surprises me. It's very interesting. I would think, though, that apes >would be too rare and precious, having their own wards even, to skin or that >such skins would make it into the inventory of a guild in a rural township. >What do we know about apes in England? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tiner, Elza [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 12:29 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: "Apis skinns"? > > Also, note that the royal households of Richard II, >Elizabeth I, >and James I > maintained "apewards," so ape skins would very likely have >been >available in > the realm. From the REED volumes: > > Richard II > Apeward in Cambridge 1382-3 > > Elizabeth I > Apeward in Coventry 1577-78 > > James I > Apeward in York 1607 > > Elza C. Tiner > > Professor of English > School of Humanities and Social Sciences > Lynchburg College