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Right on carole you have seen the pit as I have too .. isnt it odd that those who usually write about this condition have no idea how it is to be that way? When I was diagnosed, the difference between depression and * being blue* was described to me as this: Take the worst time or day you have ever had and magnify this by 1000 that is close to clinical depression. ----- Original Message ----- From: Carole Hercun <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 4:40 PM Subject: Re: NEWS: Viewing Depression as Tool for Survival > Hi janet marie: Do you think any of the people quoted here > have ever traveled the nine circles leading to the Hell of > full-blown Clinical Depression? Been there, done that. And > it takes more than happy thoughts and good intentions to > drag you back to any semblance of sanity. Sure, one's > environment, stressors, etc. affect depression, but the > point they're missing is that it DOESN'T MATTER what caused > the condition, what you are treating is a biological > illness, and while psychotherapy is enlightening and > productive (this is the testimony of a long time psych > nurse AND the recipient of more years of therapy than I > care to divulge), the cure involves medication. Depression > IS NOT comparable to diarrhea. It is insane not to treat it > when we have the cure. > Carole > --- janet marie paterson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > February 1, 2000 > > > > Viewing Depression as Tool for Survival > > > > The case, Dr. Randolph M. Nesse said, does not fit tidily > > with the view that depression is only a matter of > > disordered brain chemicals: > > > > A woman sought help from a psychiatric clinic because she > > was desperately depressed. She had dedicated five years > > to becoming a professional musician, despite her > > teachers' admonitions that she lacked the talent to > > succeed. She persisted, the woman said, because it was > > her mother's dream for her. > > > > The psychiatrists at the clinic treated her with a > > variety of antidepressant medications and with > > psychotherapy. Nothing helped. But when, one day, the > > woman reached a decision, giving up music in favor of a > > career more suited to her abilities, her depression > > lifted. > > > > Dr. Nesse, director of the Evolution and Human Adaptation > > program at the University of Michigan's Institute for > > Social Research, collects many such cases (the details > > are altered to protect patients' identities) because he > > believes they offer clues to a deeper understanding of > > depression. > > > > In a recent article in the journal Archives of General > > Psychiatry, Dr. Nesse argued that while some forms of > > depression were clearly a result of genetic vulnerability > > and brain abnormality, others might have their roots in > > evolutionary history. > > > > Darwinian theory holds that evolution selects for > > fitness: organisms with traits that promote survival or > > reproduction pass on their genes; organisms without such > > traits die off. > > > > Depression may have developed, Dr. Nesse suggested, as a > > useful response to situations in which a desired goal is > > unattainable, or, as he has put it, "when one of life's > > path peters out into the woods." > > > > Locked in pursuit of the impossible, it makes sense for > > an animal to hunker down, take stock and figure out what > > to do next, Dr. Nesse said. In some cases, depression may > > help a person disengage from what has proved a hopeless > > effort; in other cases, it may protect the person from > > jumping ship too rashly, perhaps landing in even less > > hospitable seas. > > > > "If I had to put my position in a nutshell," he said, > > "I'd say that mood exists to regulate investment > > strategies, so that we spend more time on things that > > work, and less time on things that don't." > > > > In some respects, Dr. Nesse's conception echoes that of > > the psychoanalyst Dr. Emmy Gut. In a 1989 book > > "Productive and Unproductive Depression" (Basic Books), > > Dr. Gut described, among other cases, the experience of a > > biochemist, Albert, who frequently became depressed when > > a research strategy he was pursuing went nowhere. When > > the feelings of despair passed, he said, he saw "an > > entirely different way to tackle the problem, or else, I > > have recognized that the project was unrealistic." > > > > In an interview, Dr. Gut, who lives in Sweden, said: "I > > think that depression is a normal mechanism. It's an > > attempt toward adaptation to a problem." > > > > Dr. Nesse and Dr. Gut are not the first to ponder what > > evolutionary function depression -- and its close > > relative, sadness or low mood -- might serve. Thinkers > > from Schopenhauer to Freud have offered their views. Over > > the years, scientists have speculated variously that > > depression represents a plea for help, a strategy for > > manipulating others into providing resources, a signal of > > submission or yielding in conflict, or a way to conserve > > an organism's energy and resources in hard times. > > > > Other investigators see no point in viewing depression as > > anything other than a malfunction of brain chemicals. > > > > Dr. Nesse, however, is one of a growing number of > > scientists who over the past decade have systematically > > tried to bring a Darwinian perspective to medicine, > > hoping to learn more about how evolution has shaped > > humans' vulnerability to disease. > > > > The approach is yielding a richer understanding of > > illness, and in particular, is helping scientists > > distinguish between diseases and medical conditions that > > developed as defenses against other more serious threats > > to survival. > > > > Coughing, for example, is not a disease in itself but is > > the body's attempt to rid itself of bacteria in the > > lungs. Diarrhea and vomiting, though unpleasant, also > > serve as defenses, evolving as ways to evade danger, and > > thus to preserve fitness. And the ability to feel pain is > > essential for an organism's survival. "People who are > > born without any capacity to feel pain are usually dead > > by early adulthood," Dr. Nesse said. > > > > Similarly, emotions like anxiety, fear and depression can > > be viewed as defensive strategies. Such defenses make > > sense, Dr. Nesse noted, because they have a low cost, > > especially when compared with their potential for > > protection. Vomiting, for instance, involves only the > > loss of few hundred calories, but might save an animal's > > life if the substance ingested is poisonous. In the same > > way, being frightened and anxious when no threat exists > > is a small price to pay for the readiness to fight or > > flee when true danger looms. Yet these tactics also > > sometimes go awry, and illness results: chronic pain > > syndromes or panic attacks, for example. > > > > Dr. Nesse believes the need to gain a deeper > > understanding of what purpose depression might serve is > > especially pressing at a time when the illness is so > > prevalent. Surveys indicate that 10 percent of Americans > > suffer from clinical depression; millions more endure a > > darkness that is not severe enough to earn a diagnosis > > but still interferes with their lives. > > > > Researchers have also found that the rates of depression > > have increased in people born after World War II. > > > > "The irony," Dr. Nesse said, "is that here we have > > finally created a society where not many people are > > hungry, we stay warm, we can take baths, we can travel > > and have relative freedom, and yet so many people are so > > miserable." > > > > One thing that has changed over the eons is the increased > > pressure people feel to set ever larger goals. Ancestral > > hominids may have striven to pick enough berries to last > > for a week; modern humans want to look like supermodels, > > make a million dollars in the stock market or produce > > flawless children. > > > > In shaping his ideas, Dr. Nesse has drawn upon the work > > of psychologists like Dr. Eric Klinger, at the University > > of Minnesota, who studies how people become committed to > > goals, and how they reach those goals or abandon them. > > > > Dr. Klinger's studies indicate that depression plays a > > crucial role in the process of disengaging from a goal. > > To illustrate this, he uses the analogy of a soda > > machine. "You put your 75 cents into the machine and > > nothing happens," he said. "Then you go through a series > > of phases: your behavior gets more invigorated, you pay > > more attention to the signs, you pull on levers, you put > > in more change. If it still doesn't work you may start to > > rough up the machine. But at some point," he said, "you > > walk away, feeling down, feeling disappointed. It's a > > minor depression." > > > > The fact that depression sets in after someone is > > prepared to suffer a failure or a loss, Dr. Klinger said, > > is important. "It slows you down, and makes you take your > > bearings," he said, "and at the same time it's very > > unpleasant, so that people are not going to be attracted > > to giving up quickly." > > > > Dr. Nesse believes there are many varieties of > > depression, not all of them captured by official > > diagnostic categories. An evolutionary view, he and > > others hope, might encourage a broader, more nuanced > > search for treatments. > > > > For instance, if depression is a defense, it might not > > always make sense to block its defensive properties with > > medication. When drugs are used to treat chronic diarrhea > > caused by the shigella bacteria, he noted, complications > > often result. > > > > "For my money," said Dr. Paul Gilbert, a psychologist at > > the University of Derby in England, who has written on > > depression and evolution, "the key thing really is > > recognition that the environment is key to many of these > > disorders. And if you really want to affect depression, > > it's nice to have therapies that work, and it's nice to > > have drugs that work. But do we really want a society > > where we drive everyone mad and then give them drugs to > > get them out of it?" > > > > > > By Erica Goode > > Copyright 2000 The New York Times Company > > > > janet paterson > > 52 now / 41 dx / 37 onset > > a new voice: http://www.geocities.com/janet313/ > > 613 256 8340 PO Box 171 Almonte Ontario Canada K0A 1A0 > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! 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