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Janet, I was the  "instigator" in using the analogy of  SOME people in
AA, like some people suffering from CD, concluding that recovery by any
means other than "ours" demonstrates that one didn't have the disorder in
first place.

I offered this analogy from my own experience, but must hasten to add
that, in my experience, this is a minority view among the AA people I
know.  AA has a range of personalities just like any other group, being
as a whole no more open or closed minded than most. However, just as some
of those taking medication for CD have a TENDENCY to identify only with
others taking meds, AA's who recover inside the program tend to see those
who achieve abstinence outside the program as not being "alcoholics of
our kind."  This is not my view or that of most people I know.

I've been looking at this dilemma in the recovery  community for 20
years, and the PD (depression) community for just the few weeks since I
came on line, but similarities abound.  Most striking is the fact that
both groups, despite being viewed as suffering from medical conditions by
most (but not all) in the scientific community, are still under a cloud
of moral judgment from some quarters.

A vital component of recovery from alcoholism, as well as CD, lies in
understanding and acting on the knowledge that we are not bad people
trying to be good, we are sick people seeking wellness.  Even if we
believe this truth with little reservation, when we are feeling the sting
of outside prejudice in our hearts, we tend to gather together in
increasingly small groups of rigid thinking, put on the armor of
certainty and iconoclastic ideas, and defend our "method" so single
mindedly that we begin to practice contempt prior to investigation.

For many years I was affected by the social stigma attached to
alcoholism, and I thought after a 20 year journey in recovery I had
achieve enough sensitivity in this area to avoid giving offense to people
dealing with another affliction which is viewed by "society" with a
similar ambivalence.  I was wrong and I apologize.

I appreciate all the comments that have been posted by Janet, Jo Ann,
Charles, Barb, Cathy, Audrey and others, and hope this post makes it
clear that while I think mental habits are important in every moment of
consciousness, I am obviously not a member of  the "suck it up and
positive thinking will cure anything" school, if indeed anyone on this
list is.  Whenever someone told me to suck it up, I chose to interpret
their suggestion as referring to another martini or two.

When I crashed big time nearly 20 years ago, doctors in a hospital got me
clear headed enough to begin, at their suggestion, to use the tools of
emotional and spiritual recovery offered by the 12 Steps, and if there is
no parallel with true CD, please don't take my comments as a put down,
simply hit the delete key.  My remarks on line reflect my experience,
which includes many friends in recovery who are taking anti depressants
as a vital part of their recovery process.  Perhaps, however, we are
dealing with yet another distinct group, i.e., alcoholic clinical
depressives, who should band together and insist that taking the 12 steps
while medicated is the only path to peace of mind:-)  (in case the smiley
face is not enough, this last sentence was a stab at humor)

Discussing this aspect of my history outside of a 12 step meeting is
considered inappropriate by some in recovery, but here it is, born of a
desire to contribute to this group and the conviction that this
information is relevant to the decision by other group members to put my
sharing on "delete automatically " list, or to read what I have to say
with a better understanding of where it is coming from.


Chuck