* * * * * * * * * * * * * W A R N I N G * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * There is absolutely no PD content in this note at all * * *
Hi again all,
janet, thanks for the reply. And, aside from me being up to
no good (a topic I'd be glad to chat about elsewhere :-) ), I
just have to say you grok again, gal! Big Time!
Although I agree with you that the topic you replied to is far
from off-topic in *any* Internet discussion-forum, there have
been a few comments on-list about straying from the defined list-
topic recently and I wanted to try to help those people who are
only interested in Parkinson's Disease topics pass on this one if
they wanted to.
For those of you reading this that are not interested in
anonymity and the Internet, hit your "D"elete message key now. I
feel a brain dump coming on which usually means this is going to
be a long one with absolutely no P.D. content at all.
So, on Wed, 7 Jun 2000 the digest contained:
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:29:05 -0400
From: janet paterson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Just been a bit busy / konnektions / jannie-git-yer-gun
On, Wed, 7 Jun 2000, janet paterson quoted what I wrote:
> >... Finally, (and completely of-topic) if anyone on-list knows of
> >some hackers or phreaks who might be willing to help me, please
> >contact me off-list. I have a need to positively identify some-
> >one who is "bothering" me through proxy servers and anonymous re-
> >mailers -- I have been unsuccessful in my own efforts at identi-
> >fying them and I am to the point where I want to pursue prose-
> >cution....
Let me clarify the situation. I run another mailing list.
Like this list, it has a defined discussion topic which is any
topic about the 60s and 70s American rock band Grand Funk Rail-
road. I've had anywhere between 250 and 350 subscribers at a
time. But, a few of them have taken to try to e-abuse me and
other subscribers to the list.
My Grand Funk Web site was one of the first two sites about
the band on the 'Net. This distinction and my mailing list
earned me a few privileges with the band during the 97 and 98 re-
union tours. Between the time the recent reunion started in 96
and when it broke up in 98 I attended 13 different shows around
the country. And, at a majority of these events, I was even giv-
en back stage passes and access to the band members.
As other fans started putting up Web sites about the band, a
certain core clique sort of formed. And, any time any of us were
in or near the same area as each other -- usually for a show --
we would get together. In this core group, some of the people
started perceiving that I (and a few others) were getting more
attention from the band than they were. So, as the band quit
touring at the end of 98 some strange things started happening.
Once in a while, someone who identified themselves as !!JAN!!
would sign up for a free Web e-mail account, establish a com-
pletely fake identity, set up their Web browser to use one of
several proxy servers (a proxy server guarantees that no identi-
fying information about you will be transferred to a Web site),
and start verbally terrorizing subscribers on my list. When I
unsubscribed that address, they would sign up for a different
one, establish a different fake identity, use a different proxy
server and start all over again. This went on through most of 98
and into 99.
Things were quiet for a short while. But, recently -- in 00
-- someone has popped up again and started verbally terrorizing
me and others while at the same time hacking (a term I use *very
loosely* here) into our mailing list software and sending the
list messages without being subscribed. And, if that wasn't
enough, myself and several others have been continuously sub-
scribed to pornographic newsletters and other e-mail spam
sources.
Anyway, I'm tired of it and I want to ID this person and find
some way to legally penalize them to the fullest extent of the
law.
> ...
> we are all co-pioneers out here in the Wild Wild West of the cyber-frontier
> where any one can pretend to be any one or two or three or more...
> if they so desire for whatever sad reason ...
And that is so true. What type of a pathetic little ego has
to try to pump themselves up by taking on a fake identity and
verbally terrorizing other people who have done absolutely noth-
ing to them? What kind of a whacko is allowed to get on the 'Net
and threaten some people and call others every name in the book
and get off scott-free? If they did the exact same thin in
snail-mail, the FBI would be sent out after them, find them, haul
their butt off to jail, and prosecute them fully?
What is so different about the 'Net that these creeps get off
scott-free?
> ...
> luckily
> as long as we keep our cyber-radar and smell-o-meters in good working order
> such pretensions quickly reveal themselves as such ...
And, again janet, you're right. In a one-on-one situation, a
person can fairly quickly and somewhat easily identify an aber-
rant behavior and then take steps to ignore them or filter them
out of your in-box.
Unfortunately, I have a little more difficult time. It isn't
just me I have to think about, but also all of my list sub-
scribers. And, again, you're right if they keep a single identi-
ty. My problem-child is always a moving target. I never know
when it will pop up, where it will pop up, or who it will pop up
as.
> ...
> however
> deliberate "bothering" can be a more troublesome problem out here
> i have been deliberately "bothered" as well ...
Having "been there," I completely identify and sympathize with
your problem. Again, your right, out here in cyber-space -- the
new Wild Wild West as you so aptly described it -- is much more
troublesome.
As the 'Net is a truly International medium, there don't seem
to be any common laws to combat this type of criminal behavior.
And, when I contact a proxy provider to ask them to help me ID a
cyber-creep, and when I get the typical "well ... if they haven
broken some state or federal law ..." it really pisses me off.
If I've got the evidence of being verbally terrorized or
threatened, I ought to be able to take it to a law enforcement
agency and have them force the proxy provider to identify the
jerk so I can prosecute. But, one of our members actually went
as far as to contact a law enforcement agency. The response he
got was "well ... I understand your problem, I realize that your
upset, but there is really nothing we can do."
Like hell there isn't!
> ...
> i think it raises issues that should be addressed openly;
> this affects all of us
>
> why do "anonymous re-mailers" exist on the internet at all? ...
In my opinion, anonymous remailers were originally developed
(*before* the Web!) to allow people to post messages in USENET
newsgroups that they were interested in but that might cause em-
barrassment to their employer or family if their interest was
found out.
But, janet, you're right. These remailers have also allowed
more ability for abuse than was their original intent.
> ...
> does "privacy" equal "anonymity"? ...
In a word, "!*NO*!"
> ...
> when does "anonymity" change to "pretension" to "fraud"?
>
> when does "annoyance" change to "harrassment" to "stalking"? ...
These are both good questions that *must* be answered and used
to help create international laws that can be enforced. The cur-
rent state of affairs is ridiculous. Anybody can get a free e-
mail account, completely lie about who they are, hide behind a
proxy server or an anonymous remailer, and spew filth and hate
and spread lies to and about anybody they want. When they're
done, they delete their account and set up another one. And, the
abuse cycles on.
This has got to stop!
> ...
> having an e-mail address or a web-page
> doesn't "invite" or "encourage" or "condone" such "bothering"
> any more than having a postal address [a matter of public record]
> or a home phone number [ditto] does ...
And, again janet, you are correct. I do not see *ANY* differ-
ence between a postal address and an e-mail address. If someone
sends me a copy of Hustler Magazine and I didn't request it I can
search that person out and prosecute them.
But, if I get an e-mail address, set up a fake identity, and
hide behind a proxy server, it is perfectly acceptable to send an
abusive and terrorizing e-mail and rant and curse and swear and
say questionable things about anybody and their parentage. And,
nobody can do a thing to me.
This is wrong!
> ...
> my posts here [like yours] include my snail-mail address and my phone number
> for all list-members to share
>
> i feel no need for "privacy" or "anonymity" in this pd community ...
I am a little more liberal than you on this point. I feel no
need for anonymity in any forum. As you pointed out, I have al-
ways included my address and phone number in my computer-generat-
ed signature. I realized years ago that if somebody was out to
get me, they were going to find me and there is really nothing I
can do about it short of entering the Witness Protection Program.
If I enter a 'Net forum that turns out to be inappropriate for
me or my tastes, I leave. If I find a 'Net forum that feels like
family, I have nothing to hide. I never try to pretend to be
somebody I'm not. I have very few skeletons in my closet, even
fewer secrets to keep, and most anything someone would want to
know about me (except my social security and credit card numbers)
is on my Web pages for the world to see.
In my six or seven years on the 'Net, this policy has never
failed me. I have been contacted in e-, snail-, and real-life
maybe ten times and have never been harassed anywhere remotely
near the extent that this cyber-jerk is doing on my mailing list.
And, I am finally fed up with it.
So, my question still stands. IF anybody out there in cyber-
space can put me in contact with *anyone* who has experience in
tracing real, actual identities of anonymous cyber-terrorists,
please contact me off-list. I would like to solicit their help.
And, janet, again -- you understand, gal, you grok this issue.
Thanks for your understanding. And, for those of you that read
this far, let me thank you for reading and I hope my little rant
made you think a little about this all too typical cyber-crime.
Thank you all, take care, and always try to grok in fullness
...
Bill--
...who sometimes thinks that Chicken Little was right.
.. William A. Parrette ...... 7177 Heritage Drive ....+-- =''' ----------+
.. [log in to unmask] .............. Westchester ............| c oo (42?) |
.. [log in to unmask] ......... OH 45069-4012 ..........| | \ / |
.. [log in to unmask] ..... 513/779-0780 ...........| - |
.............. http://w3.one.net/~wap/ ...............+------------------+
