Hi Camilla: Think you are correct re: the apples and
oranges. Was probably personalizing situation, dwelling on
the "lost" ones, patients who have given up their lives as
hopeless while there was still hope. Also thinking of my
Dad, who "raged against the dying of the light" until the
end. My Mom, however, was a different situation. Suffering
from terminal cancer, I was more than willing to see her
quietly slip away, and would have helped her if I could.
Carole
--- Camilla Flintermann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Carole-Grinch,
> I was very moved and impressed by your discussion of
> CD--Janet called it
> eloquent, and I certainly agree.
> BUT I was specifically NOT talking about suicidal people
> who are
> suffereing from CD! Rather I referred to those
> situations in which CD is
> NOT a major factor. "Depression" can cover a variety of
> conditions, in
> addition to the "monster" of CD, as you correctly
> identify it. There are
> persons who may even have a mild, chronic depressed
> state, but are not
> clinically depressed in the true sense of the term. They
> may have a very
> clear understanding of their condition and prospects, and
> may make a choice
> that the life available to them is not acceptable. This
> may have been
> something they have long considered, accepted, and
> discussed with their
> families---in this situation I feel they have a right to
> what has been
> called "their final act of self-determination."
> And BTW--I happen to agree that "forcing" antipsychotic
> meds is in the best
> interest of the patient--PC or not! <G>
>
> And I appreciated Janet's gracious recognition that the
> focus of her post
> was very narrow.
> I think we're discussing apples and oranges here, and
> somehow they need to
> be put into separate baskets.....
>
>
> Friend Carole wrote:
> >Hi Camilla: Excuse me for jumping in here. I love you
> >dearly and respect your opinion, and I can't speak for
> >janet, BUT...I feel that what makes CD such a monster is
> >that the way it distorts your perceptions. How can one
> make
> >a rational decision re: ending one's life while in the
> grip
> >of such debilitating anhedonia? But then I also feel
> that
> >the mentally ill have the right to refuse their
> medication
> >and revert to their psychotic state only after we have
> >exercised their right to become sane by "forcing" them
> to
> >take their meds-a currently politically incorrect
> opinion.
> > Carole
> >
> >--- Camilla Flintermann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> Dear Janet-- of course you--like anyone--are entitled
> to
> >> your opinion. May
> >> I suggest that there are differing ones on this
> subject?
> >> I think that in
> >> SOME SITUATIONS, DEPRESSION IS NOT THE MAJOR
> FACTOR--and
> >> I am not speaking
> >> of Paige, who may well have been a victim of CD--I
> have
> >> no way of knowing
> >> that.
> >>
> >> The Hemlock Society takes the view that there are
> times
> >> when a perfectly
> >> rational person who is suffering from an incurable
> >> disease and whose
> >> quality of life is *for them* unacceptable, may make
> that
> >> choice, with the
> >> knowledge of loved ones. This, I think, implies that
> it
> >> is NOT an act of
> >> depression and desperation, when loving families are
> >> involved. Think of
> >> the example of the very frail elderly person,
> bedridden
> >> in a nursing
> >> home, who simply turns to the wall and refuses
> >> nourishment---that person
> >> is not necessarily depressed, but may simply feel that
> >> "the time has come
> >> to leave".
> >>
> >> I respect the fervor of your concern re: CD, based on
> >> your personal
> >> experience and your situation--but please also respect
> >> the feelings of
> >> those who may differ with you, and who may be in a
> very
> >> different situation
> >> from yours and those you are writing about. As a
> >> counselor, there were
> >> times when I struggled to keep potentially suicidal
> >> clients from acting
> >> out the wish, till help could be found for their
> >> depression.
> >> Can't we just agree that like most things in life,
> this
> >> question may have
> >> more than one answer?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >At 06:25 AM 2000/07/03 -0400,
> >> >"Judy George <[log in to unmask]>" wrote, in
> part:
> >> >>...paige bremer may have weighed up her future and
> made
> >> a
> >> >>choice as many of us may do i respect her right to
> do
> >> that
> >> >>and admire her courage...
> >> >
> >> >the concept of suicide as an act of courage
> >> >rather than the final act of despair and desperation
> >> >of an individual in agony and distorted thinking
> >> >strikes me as irrational balderdash
> >> >which only contributes to the demeaning
> misconceptions
> >> >and cruel ignorance clouding issues around clinical
> >> depresssion
> >> >and its curability
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >but then again, that's only my opinion
> >> >
> >> >janet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Camilla Flintermann
> >> Oxford,OH
>
>
>
>
> Camilla Flintermann
> Oxford,OH
>
>
> <[log in to unmask]>
>
> On PDWebring at :
> http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/genugten/flinterm.htm
>
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> We agree to differ...
> we resolve to love...
> we
> unite to serve.
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