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Janet.... With all due respect for the apparent agony you're feeling at the death of your friend, Paige, I feel impelled to write this to you. I apologize for it's length - but wrote till I ran out of words. The terrible sadness and pain, the sense of loss, and the great void Paige's death - her self-destruction - caused in your life seems to haunt you, causing you to feel a strong need to keep bringing up this loss long after everyone else on this tiny corner of Cyberspace who cared for Paige let her rest in the peace she surely didn't have in life. MOST folks logging onto the Parkinson's List didn't know your friend Paige, yet ALL were polite and thoughtful in letting you and others who cared for Paige carry your public grief to it's natural end some weeks after Paige died. At that time you posted your feelings of pain in your poetry in our public forum. Once again you also shared your thoughts and feelings with us all about clinical and general depression. You shared your feelings about taking one's own life - suicide. And no one said "please stop already," At that time there was extensive public email about clinical depression and suicide. Those who didn't want to have a public conversation on those two topics pretty much kept THAT to themselves or in PRIVATE email so as not to cause you further pain by seeming not to care about your painful loss (when indeed most of us care and deeply about you). When I logged on just now I was saddened to see that you'd reposted your poetry - your RANTS as you called them - and seem to continue feeling a need to drag the sad ghost of Paige once again from her earthly grave and after moaning and groaning, beating yout breast (virtually), and calling not only OUR attention but OTHER folks on OTHER Lists attention to YOUR loss, DEMANDING that we all must be clinically depressed and thinking about suicide if we live with chronic disease. Well old Cyber-friend of mine... old Cyber-friend of OURS... I_ say, enough's enough! LET GO OF PAIGE. Let her TRULY "rest in peace." PAIGE IS DEAD, and SHE chose the time, the day. and the place SHE wanted to leave THIS world for another. By continuing to drag this into the open, week after week, you're exhibiting a painful craving for attention for JANET - NOT for PAIGE. I urge you again, Janet - LET GO OF PAIGE. The following is said by me only. It's my opinion based upon "knowing" and respectign Janet for about 6 years on a near daily basis via written List-exchanges. So Janet, don't think that this is some kind of group "thing" coming down on you. It's MY feelings I'm expressing. If anyone else wants to discuss my comments or Janet's, please let's keep it in private email so no public offense will take place inadvertently. I think you might need to see a professional counselor about your feelings about GROUP clinical depression, and why you personally hold that topic so dear, when most other folks, if and/or when they realize THEY are having a serious bout of depression WANT to get over it - if possible... and to STOP it from becoming an ongoing clinical condition --- if possible. Janet - the Parkinson's List is FOR people who have or in some way LIVE or KNOW someone with PARKINSON'S DISEASE and all that comes from living with PD. It's not the "CHRONIC clinical depression List" or the "Chronic-thinking-about-suicide- List," and I venture MOST folks on the PD List would prefer not to seemingly -- REPEATEDLY, *CHRONICLY*-- find those two topics shoved down their throats on a regular basis. One last thing, Janet.... It took a lot for me to get involved in this kind of commentary at this time. I've got my own personal hob-goblins to deal with now and I'm functioning mostly on sheer will power.. I'd MUCH prefer not to act like 2 cats fighting over the still-warm body of a dead mouse after you receive this message. With caring friendship for you and respect for your loss.... Barb Mallut [log in to unmask] --Original Message----- From: Janet Paterson <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Date: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 10:30 PM Subject: janet's rants on clinical depression (cd) and suicide >cross-posted to the park place and to the parkinson forum at mgh: > > >janet's rants on clinical depression (cd) and suicide > > >i am a member of the 'big' pd mailing list >and participated in cyber-discussions about >the pan forum and the glad and sad news presented >there. the news about paige broke my heart and >produced the following bits of 'rants' of mine >in the subsequent cyber-discussions. > >for whatever it may be worth, >all of my messages to the pd list >are on the wwweb at my wwwebsite >"http://www.geocities.com/janet313/" > >we are all cyber-siblings when it comes to pd >and that goes double for cd > >with love > >janet paterson > >"[log in to unmask]" > > >-----jant rant part one---------------------------------------------- > >might i present a theorem of cause and effect: > >IF: >1. suicide is virtually always 'caused' by cd >AND: >2. cd is totally absolutely CURABLE with treatment >AND: >3. cd is the most common of ALL 'disabilities' world wide >THEN: >4. cd is the most under-diagnosed and under-treated 'disability' world wide >AND: >5. suicide is a leading and growing cause of death among young adults >HUH? > >something is sadly and tragically wrong with this 'theorem' picture > >why? > >because of the >toxic shame still attached >[which we as a society still attach] >to 'emotional weakness' or 'mental disorders' > >we parkies, of all people, >who know first-hand and in-our-face >what havoc a little 'glitch' in our brain chemistry can cause, >are no less caught up in that toxic-shame/keep-it-hidden cycle >when it comes to the 50% of us >who deal with cd too > >maybe some of us did 'miss' paige's pain, >but my guess is that she also made a great effort to hide it, >due to our mutual and societal collective brain-washing-staining > >quick survey: >how did you all feel when i mentioned 'tears' earlier today >in response to the news about paige? >should i have 'kept it quiet'? >'not made a fuss'? >or what? > >-----jant rant part two----------------------------------------------- > >if only ... >i might have ... >maybe we should've ... > >i have heard of too many pd-related suicides >it's giving pd a bad name > >as a veteran of 12 years of pd [as diagnosed] >and 10 years of cd [as diagnosed] >i tend to think that cd is the more insidious > >at least with pd and sinemet >there's a little relief in the symptoms >good hard evidence of a little light at the end of the tunnel now and again > >with cd my thinking becomes so negative, >that i can't imagine any other way or time or being; >i can't imagine anything; i can barely think at all > >being a parkie doesn't mean i can't be perky at the same time > >being in cd can make me feel worse than >if i had ms, pd, als, psp, and msa combined >and [this is the real kicker] >even if i had none of the above > >cd sucks the joy and the possibility >out of every single aspect and moment of life > >cd causes 'paralysis of will' which imho is profoundly >more debilitating than pd > >cd distorts and twists ordinary thinking patterns >into downward spiraling and self perptuating >doom and gloom prophesies >[which are way beyond the reach of any ideas about 'bootstraps'] >viz my little attempt at a scriptlette: >[help me out here, carole, huh?] > >"research? it'll be a cold day in hell ..." >"mjf? he's just in it for the sympathy ..." >"hope? are you nuts?" "they are all blowing hot air" >"forum? what's the use .. the nih is just a cash hog" >"no, i just can't bear the idea of having to see a shrink" >"there's never going to be a cure ... don't waste my time" >"i'll never figure out this dsse form ... i can't concentrate ... >bernie is crazy if he thinks i'm going to spend all day filling in all this >stuff" ... >"i will never get any better - it's hopeless" >"no, i don't want to talk to anyone, take a message" >"so what if i haven't been out of the house in a month ... >there's nothing out there i haven't seen before ... i don't want to go out" >"i can't stop wanting to cry ... what a fool i am ..." >"the men in the white coats are going to come get me if i let on..." >"this new med will never work so there's no point in trying it..." >"maybe i'll get out of bed tomorrow, i can't face anything today..." >"... i forgot my meds again, what's the point ... " >"why can't i get myself out of this? i must be losing my mind ... " >"this pain is unbearable already and it keeps getting worse ..." >"all my friends have deserted me... they can't stand me anymore ..." >"... i can't stand me anymore ..." > >and on and on ad nauseum >and eventually to utter despair >and ultimately maybe to suicide > >we are hoping against hope for a cure for pd >imagine having a cure for it right now >maybe even for the past five years >and hardly anyone is taking it >because of toxic shame >and society stereotypically saying >there's nothing wrong with you that a little willpower won't fix > >boggles the mind... > >-----jant rant part three--------------------------------------------- > >i also have no intention or desire >to cause pain or embarrassment to paige's loved ones >or to diminish our respect for paige's memory in any way > >this is such an important issue >every time we lose another soul to suicide >i feel it more and more deeply > >i have been looking at paige's website and other web-pages again >[thank you murray for your magnificent digging [!]] > >imho >the person who wrote those words was not in depression, period. >no one mired in cd could express even one percent of that energy. >the spark that jumps out of her words is from her unfettered and joyous >spirit. > >i can remember while mired in cd >not being 'able' to read some of my own posts >because they 'made my eyes hurt' > >the joy >[or the memory of the joy] >[or the reminder of the loss of that joy] >in them was too much to bear > >so i must make an assumption that somewhere somehow paige >hit a major bump in her path which changed her thinking processes >and enabled the dreaded cd downward spiral to take over > >bernie's note tends to confirm my assumption >but for the sake of clarity in digging out the true 'cause' of this tragic >'effect' >i would suggest that your words might need a tad bit of correction: > >>Depression, along with PD, and some other physical >>issues, all contributed to her impulsive act ... > >imho, the physical issues do not 'cause' suicide >viz: christopher reeve and stephen hawking are still stirring up 'trouble' > >the 'physical issues' may 'make us feel' a certain way physically, >but they do not 'make us feel' any particular way emotionally or >intellectually > >the way we think about things, >the way we perceive the world we think we live in, creates our emotions > >in most cases we have a choice of >how we perceive and thus how we think and thus how we feel > >[which is what my wysiwyg times three pome is all about] > >which can be one heck of a concept to wrap one's brain around > >i've been working on it for a few years now >and i think i'm starting to 'get it' > >any old timers here will testify to the fact >that i've been harping on the subject of "perceptions" since july 1997 > >why do i know the date and the timing so well? >that's when i got the gumption to 'go public' again >after my cd fog lifted and the world i had previously known >[the world that i had almost forgotten had ever existed] >came back into my viewfinder > >maybe i'm splitting hairs here, bernie, >but i think i will feel compelled to keep splitting any that i come across >until this 'most common disability world wide' >which is also the 'most under-diagnosed' one and >which has the most tragic and totally needless final symptom as its >'effect' >is not only wrassled to the ground >but is stomped all over and >defeated into the dust > >one further clarification >awhile back up the page i said: > >>in most cases we have a choice of >>how we perceive and thus how we think and thus how we feel > >the unique and dastardly thing about cd is that it robs us of that choice >it is not a physical disability like blindness or paralysis >but a measurable bio-physio-chemical change >in the chemical balance in a specific part of the brain > >the causes of the said imbalance can be all sorts of things: >heredity, emotional trauma, pharmacological, physical, etc. etc > >maybe my 'getting' the concept of even *having* a choice >in how i perceive things, in how i respond emotionally to my world, >was that much more of a shock to me since, at the time, >i was in the process of scraping away the cd muck >and could barely comprehend the idea of >feeling any emotions anyway >let alone having >control of >them > >so this is jant's rant's summary for today: > >1. physical disabilities do not cause cd >2. cd is caused by a brain chemistry change >3. which is reversible and curable >3.a. but >4. which change manifests itself in expression of negative emotions >5. which are considered "no-go" territory in our society >5.a. why? you tell me ... >6. which results in cd wrassling too many of us to the ground instead of >the reverse > >janet >so grateful to be here and now > >================================================================= ===== > >janet paterson >53 now / 41 dx pd / 37 onset pd / 44 dx cd / 43 onset cd >tel: 613 256 8340 url: "http://www.geocities.com/janet313/" >email: "[log in to unmask]" smail: PO Box 171 Almonte Ontario K0A 1A0 Canada