I'm not convinced, as Guy is, that writing must be severed from English, though it certainly seems a convenient option. What is required, if writing is to remain in English, is for a general faculty acknowledgment of expertise. Rhetoric and composition, or professional writing, or technical writing, are areas of expertise as legitimate as Shakespeare or Byron or Chaucer. If the department is willing to acknowledge that, then it follows that experts should determine appropriate class size, pedagogical approach etc. Otherwise, there is no expertise, and that is not something that I think any traditional literary scholar is willing to give up. If there is expertise, then presumably the compositionist is the one to determine such issues as course content, class size, teaching approach etc. Now, of course, an individual faculty member cannot be allowed too much control, because we would expect him/her to want to get away with tiny classes. We have, say the bean counters, to be administratively responsible. That is why the pedagogy argument is so important. We have ample evidence on the side of small comp. classes, whatever English depts might allege. You might even propose a study. Have one instructor who believes in large lectures teach a large lecture writing class, and another who believes in small classes teach a small class. Then measure 1. student satisfaction and their perception of worth of the course, 2. student improvement using rhetorical and linguistic indicators of improvement to analyze papers over a term or year. My guess is that you wouldn't need to do the study because no one would dare take on the larger class. We all know that small is better, only sometimes people don't want to admit it for whatever selfish reasons (like departmental head quotas etc). If someone did take on the impossible class size, you'd wind up with the evidence you want anyway. We haven't codified it here at U of T, but we certainly get it anecdotally as students compare ENG 182 (the monster tech writing course) and APS 185 (the 22 max. tech writing course for L2 students). good luck. Rob Irish ********************************************** Dr. Robert Irish Director of Language Across the Curriculum Applied Science and Engineering University of Toronto 416-978-6708 ********************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To leave the list, send a SIGNOFF CASLL command to [log in to unmask] or, if you experience difficulties, write to Russ Hunt at [log in to unmask] For the list archives and information about the organization, the annual conference, and publications, go to the Inkshed Web site at http://www.StThomasU.ca/inkshed/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-