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Thanks Bill Your thoughtful contributions helped a great deal Charlie At 02:21 PM 10/8/00 -0400, you wrote: >Charles and Bob.... > >CONGRATULATIONS ! ! > >I think you two have drafted a VERY thoughtful and useful document. I am >saving it as a key document in my stem cell bioethics folder. You should >publish this list on other lists and links. > > From broken eggs come omelets! > >Bill <(©¿©)> > >**************************************8 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Charles T. Meyer, M.D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 2:05 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Fwd: stem cells - Agreement between Dr. Fink and Me > > > > > > The following is a copy of messages exchange by Bob Fink and > > myself. Did anybody think this could happen? Maybe there will be peace > > in the Middle East > >and the Messiah will come either the 1st or 2nd time depending on your > >viiewpoint- but let us stay away from religion!?! > > > > > > Let's try and wrap this up and summarize where we agree. I think this > > > has been one of the best debates I have participated on the issue of > > > an abortion related subject and I think the people on the list enjoyed > > > it also.I don't think you should have any problem with 1to4 or 7 5+6 > > > probably will require some rewriting and I ask you to write what you > > > think works that you think I might agree to, > > > > > > The areas of agreement are: > > > 1. Fetal stem cell research has significant promise and should under > > > close supervision continue. > > > > > > 2. Since fetal stem cells are derived from the products of IVF (in > > > virtro fertilization) which has as its primary goal the initiation of > > > life for couples who otherwise would not be able to conceive and the > > > embryos that are utilized for stem cell research are the byproduct of > > > that process which cannot result in a live birth the use of Stem cells > > > in research is moral and reasonable. > > > > > > 3. While the NIH guidelines appear appropriate it is crucial that > > > they be followed closely because of the fact that some Americans > > > believe that human life begins at conception, feel that the use of > > > embryos and pre embryos in research cheapens life and do not have > > > faith in the NIH monitoring at present. > > > > > > 4. Based on our present state of the (scientific) art, we cannot prove > > > that an embryo of younger than 8 weeks has brain activity. Relying on > > > the current (legal) interpretation of "brain death" as a guide, such > > > an embryo would not be considered a human being. This could change > > > with either better measurement or different interpretation of the > > > meaning of the EEG recording. > > > > > > 5. The exact moment of when human life starts is controversial and > > > subject to interpretation as filtered through each individual's > > > experience philosophy and religion. Science has no answer. In early > > > stages of development some people believe that the loss of a > > > pregnancy through spontaneous means or abortion results a death (or a > > > murder) while others believe it is only the loss of potential life. > > > In cases where it is a matter of faith or interpretation and there are > > > no overwhelming scientific data to proceed on, the mother, and father > > > in concert with their physician and clergy (if desired) are the only > > > people who can make the choice of what is right for them. They should > > > not be coerced in any direction > > > > > > 6. The rights of the mother vs. the rights of the baby are > > > controversial and beyond the scope of this summary. Court decisions, > > > including constitutional interpretations, the political process and > > > precedent need to be our guides here. > > > > > > 7. Violence and is not a way to resolve this matter. This is the > > > ultimate cheapener of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > >********************************************** > > > >Robert A. Fink, M. D., F.A.C.S., P. C. > > > >2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 > > > >Berkeley, California 94704-2636 > > > >Telephone: 510-849-2555 FAX: 510-849-2557 > > > >WWW: http://www.dovecom.com/rafink/ > > > > > > > >mailto:[log in to unmask] > > > > > > > >"Ex Tristitia Virtus" > > > > > > > >********************************************* > > > > > > Charles T. Meyer, M.D. > > > Middleton, WI > > > PD DX 12 years (at age 44) > > > Age 56 > > > >Charlie, > > > >You get an A+ from me. I have no problem accepting *all 7* of your > >summary statements. My only caveat is in number 5, where I feel very > >strongly that the *father* needs to be included in the considerations > >concerning abortion and other procedures which may involve the > >termination of life. I would insert a *comma* after "to proceed on", to > >make this clearer. > > > >You may post our agreement to the List if you wish. It has been a > >stimulating exercise debating with you and most of the others on this > >issue. > > > > > >Best, > > > >Bob > > > > > >********************************************** > >Robert A. Fink, M. D., F.A.C.S., P. C. > >2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 > >Berkeley, California 94704-2636 > >Telephone: 510-849-2555 FAX: 510-849-2557 > >WWW: http://www.dovecom.com/rafink/ > > > >mailto:[log in to unmask] > > > >"Ex Tristitia Virtus" > > > >********************************************* > >Charles T. Meyer, M.D. >Middleton, WI >PD DX 12 years (at age 44) >Age 56 Charles T. Meyer, M.D. Middleton, WI PD DX 12 years (at age 44) Age 56