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Thank you Paul, Camilla, and Katie, for continuing the discussion of inappropriate postings to the list. When I signed on today there were 58 new messages, of which about 50 were PD related. About 40 were from this list, and of those 16 were from Janet, or somewhere between 30-40%. Janet, methinks thou dost protest too loudly... There have been many rational efforts to request some e-etiquette. I will not judge you, and others who continue to refuse to accommodate the many who accommodate the few who dominate the list with emails that would be more appropriately sent to a reduced personal list. But I will ask you to seriously consider why you resist making even minor changes. Is there no value in compromise? In a list of over 2000 members, shouldn't the few respect the many, however silent they may be? To quantify this in energetic terms (something we ecologists are wont to do...): if we assume that 50% of the list favors unlimited personal postings and 50% favor reasonable e-etiquette limitations, and then assume 10 seconds to read and delete each message -- these 16 messages took at least 2.5 minutes of my time tonight. x 1000 = 2500 minutes for 1/2 of the list to delete ~ = 42 computer hours. That's a lot. For the sake of reasonableness, let's cut that # in half to yield a daily average of 21 computer hours spent by members of this list deleting unwanted email. Annualized, this = 7,665 hours = 319 days... nearly a year of time. Folks, insofar as energy use is concerned, and consequent global warming, this is flat out unconscionable. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. THINK about WHAT you DO ! The U.S., with 4% of the global population produces 25% of the carbon dioxide emissions. While not all energy use produces CO2, the analogy is an appropriate commentary on our thoughtless, rugged-individualist, wasteful attitudes. Reflecting on the "greater good" might yield some insight. In closing, I urge those who use the list "loosely" to reflect. If not about my 2.5 minutes, how about atmospheric warming... Hoping to spend my 2.5 minutes posting useful info, in future... Marla Marla L. Gillham PO Box 343 Yachats, OR 97498-0343 541.547.4090 [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lauer <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: Re: BMJe: Book Review: Suicide, An Unnecessary Death > Janet: I will reply to your last post and then I'm done whether you choose to > post back or not. This kind of non-pd discussion on list is exactly about > what I am complaining. > > You ask about my "more people than not" statement. I admit to hyperbole to > try make a point. What I should have said is that almost everyone who posts > off list to me on this subject, deletes far more than they read and my sense > of those who post on the subject on list is that more are objecting to the > lack of PD content then are cheering it on. > > For that matter, some of your statements appear to be hyperbolic: > 1. While even one is too many, how many PWP have you heard of who committed > suicide. And while you're at it, how many with cancer, or MS or other > debilitating disease. And eventually, how many with no physical disease but > rather a mental disorder. The attempt to link suicide with PD as if they were > follow ons doesn't even rise to disingenuous. And how many of those with PD > may have never thought of it until they read your posts. It seems to me that > posting suicide information for a list who primary function is the antithesis > of suicide is both contrary and counter productive > > 2. While I take your word for it only arguendo that "suicide and attempted > suicide is > (sic) a tragic and needless result of clinical depression which is a totally > curable mood disorder....", I point out that this is a PD list, not a CD list > and even if suicide follows CD as night follows day (your implication, not > mine), it is only of marginal interest (humanitarian at best), to PDers who > are not clinically depressed. And I take serious issue with your contention > that 40%-60% (say 50% on average) of PWP are clinically depressed. If I > wasn't loathe to propagate this waste of time, I'd call for a survey of list > members and that bit of hyperbole would go down in flames > > 3. I understand that from your perspective, CD is more debilitating. Perhaps > those on the list with Schizophrenia or Bi-polar Affective Disorder or other > mood or mental illnesses feel the same way vis a vis their illness. But they > neither trumpet it nor force those of us who joined strictly for PD > information to either suffer through repetitions of it or cull it out time > and again. And since the old compromise of clearly putting NON-PD > in the subject line has gone by the boards, it is no longer possible to > delete by subject so many of those with whom I correspond off list have taken > to deleting by person regardless of the possible germane nature of that > person's subject. > > 4. Wasting time and space is more than my opinion unless you delete the > opinions of those you don't care for without reading or taking cognizance of > their content. It also appears to be the opinion of at least one of the list > owners, if not on your hobby horse subject, then on at least one other non PD > thread just recently. > > 5. You are extremely computer literate. Can you not bundle the e-mail > addresses of those who frequently compliment you and request reposting about > CD and I presume suicide, and send your reposting to all of them in one > keystroke rather than burdening the rest of the list with it. > > 6. While a delete key is essential, so is a space bar and a dollar sign. But > deleting is not merely hitting a delete key. At least on AOL, if deleted > after first having been read, it goes into "old mail" and into storage in the > personal file cabinet. If deleted without being read it goes into "mail > recently deleted". In either case it takes either additional time and effort > to further completely delete or it takes up space on the hard drive which > could be used better to speed the performance of the machine. > > 7. Your suggestion that the list cannot survive if complaints intimidate > members from posting is belied by the fact that the list continues despite > these frequent flare-ups and by (what is to me obvious) the clear observation > that the non-pd posters are in the main more bellicose, less retiring and far > less likely to leave the list because of complaints against them then are > less bellicose, more retiring members likely to > leave the list to escape the extraneous matter. > > 8. When I have something to say regarding PD, its effects, its dietary > restrictions, its medicine, it's clinical trials, or other like subjects, I > say them, They are all in the archives for you or anyone else who wants to > take sides to read. I once or twice mentioned my own hobby horse (Wedgwood) > during a discussion on hobbies and someone actually complained about it when > it was in context. It's unfortunate that my "fight' for better PD context on > the list is viewed by you and probably a vocal few other posters of non-pd > material as censorship. I can only hope that those who feel as I do can be > vocal as well if the situation begins to demand it. > > 9. Your ending with the solution/problem quote would be all the more germane > if due and accurate recognition were given to who was whom. > > As I said earlier, this missive is my last public posting on the subject (at > least for now....never say never). If you decide to reply, make sure the > subject is recognizable or the reply will be deleted in accordance with my > instructions from you. In that case, all your bon mots will fall on blind > eyes. > > With respect for your writing ability and your zeal for the list but with > disdain for your choice of subject matter, I remain; > > Paul H. Lauer > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn