I have been tempted these past few days to do what Marcy does so well, leap in and say my piece; but those moments have passed, and now Roberta's note triggered a response I must get down. I guess it's that sense of urgency Roberta mentioned and the challenge she threw out. I do not want to make an issue of the authentic/non-authentic division and I don't wish to equate one with workplaces and the other with school. I do, however, want to stress the notion of engagement or commitment, what some of you have called ownership. Ownership rightly begs the question: ownership as opposed to what? Plainly stated: ownership by the teacher (or the textbook, or the institution, or all three). The effect is more or less the same: writers must continually monitor what someone else wants, expects, and how with minimal effort (there are other courses, after all) they might meet such expectations. I am sure all of us are aware of such stances and the constraints they impose; and we try to work against them. But I sense the institutional setting works against our best intentions. I recall one of my colleagues who insisted that late papers would be penalized. The "real world" has its norms. But surely, no one in that world is expected to produce four or five major papers in more or less the same period. My own take on requests for extensions was, "Sure, why not," simply because I saw no point in reading and grading something that had been rushed, was unfinished in the writer's eyes, and that therefore did not provide fair evidence of the writer's capabilities (of course, there were other pieces as well). But it also struck me as well, that I was being unfair in laying such expecations on the writer. There were other courses with similar demands; and the writer had a life. Here again because of the dialogic imperative, I hear Inkshedders saying, "but, but, but. ...." I believe Roberta is saying, we need to get out of the way, not front and centre, not the primary audience, and then at least, writers will attend to finding, discovering, what it is they want to say, what matters and what is realizable given constraints of time and other commitments. It is in such contexts that we learn whatever we learn as writers (as I learn now, thanks to your attentiveness and concern). And, why are workplaces more likely to produce such learning (for those who write in them)? It's because, writers in those settings live within such demands and challenges seven to eight hours five times a week; whereas the writing contexts we create in our classrooms can hardly measure up to such concentratedness. (In case you are wondering, Anthony, I am just warming up to write that response to Russ's review.) Patrick Patrick Dias 518 Montford Drive Dollard des Ormeaux, QC Canada H9G 1M8 Phone: 514-626-3605 (Home) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To leave the list, send a SIGNOFF CASLL command to [log in to unmask] or, if you experience difficulties, write to Russ Hunt at [log in to unmask] For the list archives and information about the organization, its newsletter, and the annual conference, go to http://www.stu.ca/inkshed/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-