Oops, I sent this to Russ, and only Russ, the first time. Great discussion!! I think I'd like to come at the issue of "rhetorical authenticity" from another angle (and here I'm taking up a theme from _Worlds Apart_ and Russ's review of it). If we're talking about rhetorical authenticity from a teaching/learning-in-school perspective, then I think what really matters is how a writing project is framed for students and what explicit or implicit claims are being made for it by the teacher. Or put another way, it's a question of authentic situations, authentic rhetors, authentic audiences, and authentic purposes. So for example, let's say a piece of writing has been elicited by a teacher in a case-study type of situation, with students assigned a pretend persona (say, an employee in an organization), with a pretend audience (say, the employee's manager), for a pretend purpose (say, to present an analysis of a problem and recommend a solution), for the *real* purpose of being read and graded by the teacher. Then the texts produced by the students will be authentic pieces-of-writing-produced-by-students-in-a-classroom-for-a-teacher/grader-for-the-purposes-of-practicing-writing-and-receiving-grades. The texts will be that and nothing else--they will have no other rhetorical authenticity but that. I don't mean to say that the assignment and the writing experience wouldn't be worthwhile--they may be very worthwhile--but the texts have no other rhetorical authenticity. The texts will not be anything like a text actually produced in the workplace by an employee, addressed to the employee's manager, and intended to convey a problem analysis and recommended solution. In fact, the two types of texts will be Worlds Apart. Graham *************************************************************** Graham Smart Office phone: (765) 494-3773 Assistant Professor Office fax: (765) 494-3780 Purdue University Home phone: (765) 583-0674 Department of English Home fax: (765) 583-0674 324 Heavilon Hall mailto: [log in to unmask] West Lafayette http://icdweb.cc.purdue.edu/~gsmart Indiana 47907 *************************************************************** www.hungersite.com www.freedonation.com www.sierraclub.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To leave the list, send a SIGNOFF CASLL command to [log in to unmask] or, if you experience difficulties, write to Russ Hunt at [log in to unmask] For the list archives and information about the organization, its newsletter, and the annual conference, go to http://www.stu.ca/inkshed/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-