I used turnitin.com with my fall course this year for the first time. I was not much impressed. For example, even though Scientific American is on the web, turnitin cannot catch it (the site is secure and turnitin is too cheap to subscribe, even though that's an obvious source for any science paper). In fact, it cannot even catch the "trailer" to the Sci-am articles which are available to the public. (I know because I copied the lead paragraph from the Sci-Am website, and sent it to turnitin. It came back as entirely original. I complained to turnitin about this truck-sized gap, but I've yet to receive a response). Thus, it saved some time, but not a lot. They're only good for public access web sources. At the same time, the student's argument is flawed. Requirement to do something is entirely different than presumption of guilt. (If I'd been the prof, I'd have given him an incomplete-- it is just as if he hadn't handed it in.) Further, I'm pretty annoyed at the student's assumption about what my job is: the student assumes that my job is to "catch" the cheater. No, my job is to give feedback and coach students to express themselves more clearly; so if I can have a filter that will weed out spurious crap, it reduces the time I have to waste being plagiarism police allowing it to be spent more productively. In fact, turnitin did catch two of my students on drafts. This was a huge boon to the students because I would have caught them in the final analysis anyway, BUT it saved me time and it allowed them the chance to recover, to reconstruct their thinking in ways that synthesized others' ideas and capitalized on them rather than spouting them (and badly misconstruing them). The better of the two managed a B+ in the course. I do not assume with turnitin.com that students are guilty until proven innocent, but that this is a learning tool. Another way to regard it is like the signature on the back of your passport photo: it is validation that you have gone through the appropriate hoops. It isn't that people assume you're a terrorist if you haven't got your photo signed, it's just you haven't finished your task of preparing the application. Same with the paper, it's just part of the process. Further, if you are mishandling sources, turnitin is a lot kinder than a decanal tribunal. (I sat through a particularly painful one of these in November.) Finally, I do assume -- more I know -- The student's complaint about expanding the database shows that he hasn't really ever studied science where copying old lab reports is virtually a rite of passage. (And no, you can't create a different lab for every class of students when the costs of the lab are several hundred thousand for equipment). The student's moral indignation seems to me misplaced. One could be equally indignant about students who try to cheat the system. Now, I may be sounding somewhat American (or as my kids would say "U-S-ian" -- "they don't own the whole continent") but I would say that the limitation on the freedom is worth the benefit it has for the many. While I wouldn't want to apply this too far to homeland security, in my Canadian way, I think that allowing the professor time to work with the legitimate work of students is part of good governance. Finally, in my class of 20 engineers, turnitin probably saved me 2 or 3 hours work; that is insufficient for the university to increase my enrolment. The student needs to turn elsewhere for the "big classes - lack of faculty" argument. It seems unlikely to stick to turnitin.com. So, although I don't especially like turnitin, I can't see this student's rhetoric as being the bright light of northern reason that Marci is hoping for, but then I don't suppose you're finding that in the primaries either. Rob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To leave the list, send a SIGNOFF CASLL command to [log in to unmask] or, if you experience difficulties, write to Russ Hunt at [log in to unmask] For the list archives and information about the organization, its newsletter, and the annual conference, go to http://www.stu.ca/inkshed/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-