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To answer your question "Could someone tell me why it's wrong to lie about getting a blowjob (or a thousand)-- who cares?", directly... When the leader of the free world makes moral justification and splits hairs defining sex as only vaginal penetration and then betrays and lies to his closest friend and ally, his wife, then I would question his judgment at times because his judgment was clouded by his basic primitive instinct and not the facts and real risk associated with sexual harassment. That is quite different from acting on the best intelligence available at the time and making an informed decision regarding ridding the world of a brutal dictator who killed thousands of people because they were not of the same political persuasion and religious beliefs as he was. That's the difference. Oh and of course "free speech" is good for us but not the Iraqi people. A few hundred thousand of them tried to use it. They wound up gassed in their sleep when a brutal dictator used weapons of mass destruction. They are now resting in mass graves in the desert. I guess they were "dumb enough to think they had the right to free speech" after all only Americans really have that right. Yes freedom has its price. We already paid for it. Yes only Americans should have that. Only Americans should have freedom of religion. Of course and only people with Parkinson's should have all limited resources spent on research that in some way directly improves their quality of life. We all know the quality of our lives is much more important than the quality of any other lives. We need to think of the common good (only ours of course, our lives are worth more) and declare all who would want to consider the moral implications of their actions as unworthy, venom spitting liars who want us to continue to suffer because they are just mean poopy heads (my grandson gave me that one). Clinton relied on the best intelligence at the time when he blew up an aspirin factory in Libya resulting in the deaths of many innocent civilians. Was he wrong? He made a mistake, but he took action, he was not wrong. He sought advice of top trusted advisors and relied on the best intelligence available at the time. Was he wrong when he ignored the best intelligence at the time and missed killing Osama Ben ladan? No, he made a judgment call that resulted in spending millions of dollars attacking a tent in the desert killing innocent civilians because he waited. Seriously there is no doubt in my mind he would never do such a thing on purpose. I don't think he was the best leader for this country but he was the leader and was making the judgment calls we elected him to make. He did his best. If you haven't noticed there is wide spread killing in the streets and mob rule taking place close to home in Haiti. With an unstable middle east in the midst of a religious war which has already stretched across the ocean and attacked our homeland, it is no wonder the ruler of this country would want to do what he could to stabilize the Caribbean region which is closer to home. You go into Haiti because it's the right thing to do and we can do it. Can you honestly tell me that if you had a gun and you were standing behind a person who was shooting down innocent civilians you would not take a stand and try to stop him? I know I would. I know I wouldn't even give him a chance to kill another person. He already proved his intentions. Sadam and his sons, now that's real evil. Gassing the Kurds now that's real suppression of free speech. The uprising of the Kurds now that was a plea for help. Not backing them the first time was an error in judgment. Finishing the job to the best of our ability has saved hundreds of thousands of lives and yes it has been at the cost of American lives. Our brave men and women laid down their lives as many brave Americans have in the past protecting both our land and other lands from the actions of real evil. I value their lives but I also value other lives. We have taken from this land and this world. We have prospered. From time to time we must give back. It is a sad day for all when we lose our lives doing that but we can stand proud that we did not stand behind the man with the gun shooting innocents. We took our chances and stopped him. The job is not done yet. We however can rest assured those that gave their lives did so with pride and did save thousands more than we gave. Yes Carrie there is a difference between "A blow job under the desk of the President of the United States given by a subordinate young intern" and making the best judgment call you possibly can relying on the best intelligence available at the time. The difference is one leader struggled with the thought of sacrificing young American lives to save hundreds of thousands in the future. He did so and made a judgment call after conferring with the entire congress and the American people. He did so and still gave the dictator a chance to get away. Then he took a stand and moved ahead. The other leader never conferred with the American people. He never asked if it was OK to get a "blow job under his desk." He never asked congress for their backing. He never asked his wife. He knew it was wrong for him to place himself in that position. He just felt like his immediate needs were just greater than those of his wife, family and country. That's the difference. When you place your immediate needs ahead of others and do so with out moral considerations then you suffer lapses in judgment. Oh, and yes in my opinion this is still off topic. Can we return to the topic? If you all don't want to return to the topic in the name of free speech it's ok with me, but then I would be a bit selfish in taking the soap box to reply to these uncalled for unfair and unproductive accusations. I would rather not be placed in that position. Peace and Love to all. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie Barrott" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 4:05 AM Subject: Re: FW: Bush has declared war on the majority of American citizens! > In a message dated 2/29/2004 11:02:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, > [log in to unmask] writes: > The most sinister aspect of the Bush administration is that he "Speaketh with > forked tongue". > Well, I am probably going to take a beating for saying this, but... > > Can someone tell me why it's wrong to lie about getting a blowjob (or a > thousand) -- who cares? (Please note: I was very upset that Clinton lied to his > wife and his country). And why is it OK, all right, totally cool to lie to the > American people, the service men and women AND their parents, etc, etc, ad > nauseum about the reasons for going to war? And now, in case you haven't > heard, we are apparently going to Haiti. Lovely. > > Carrie > "You have the right to free speech, as long as you're not dumb enough to > actually try it." - The Clash, British Punk Band > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn