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This is exactly what happens when politics is introduced on the list. You have pro and con on both sides, and I have seen Bush slammed more times than I can count by "editorializing" here on this list. Now, when folks point to Kerry, since they are running "against" each other, all hell will break loose, both on mainstream programming on the news you and I see every day, and on this list. This list will self destruct if political and religious arguments/debate/editorialization is allowed. We must get a handle on this _*NOW,*_ since there is 8 months left before the next election. I joined the list because of its members, and it was virtually absent of politics and other issues that divide and cause heated unhealthy arguments. From the VERY BEGIINNING, on this list, I have been very open on saying that this was NOT the place to post political view points. The only person that has been very good at posting relevant PD articles here on this list that points to shortcomings of the current administration is Murray. Everyone else (including myself, albeit very restrained), has had to put in a slam, slant, or self-prescribed editorial. Murray posts the article in entirety, WITHOUT editorial comments common to other folks that post. This is very commendable on Murrays part. I cannot tell you how valuable this type of posting is, and if everyone followed Murray's example, we would all be better for it. We really truly need to use constraint, and keep this list as it once was. I sincerely fear that we are going down a bad path here, as you can see by the current threads. If you actually count the negative slams against the current administrations and then count the negative ones on the current competitior for the same office, you will see that the Bush Slams far out number the Kerry Slams....... I say we DON"T SLAM anyone, but post relevant aritcles so folks can write their local represenatives. My two cents: Jeff Bayard. David Moreland wrote: > Do we have a double standard or what, its not alright to say any thing > that anyone might say that would be at all negative regarding George > W but we have an open season on John Kerry . I think that is just as > distasteful. Now if John Kerry had done or said something relating to > stem cell research or other issues of relevance to PWP > > > At 03:59 AM 3/7/2004, you wrote: > >> Kerry is not gettng my vote, this is just one of the reasons. Thanks >> for speaking up, Tomberline. >> I am a vet too, and not many vets like the guy. >> Jeff >> >> >> >> >> >> tomberdine wrote: >> >>> Sen. Kerry, the "noble statesman" and "highly decorated Vietnam vet" of >>> today, is a far cry from Kerry, the radical, hippie-like leader of >>> Vietnam >>> Veterans Against the War (VVAW) in the early 1970s. >>> >>> Soon after Kerry, as a Navy Lieutenant (junior grade) commanding a >>> Swift >>> boat in Vietnam, was awarded the Silver Star, he used an obscure Navy >>> regulation to leave Vietnam and his crew before completing his tour >>> of duty. >>> >>> After returning home, he quit the Navy early and changed the color >>> of his >>> politics to become a leader of VVAW. Kerry wasted no time organizing >>> opposition in the United States against the efforts of his former >>> buddies >>> still ducking communist bullets back in Vietnam. >>> >>> Kerry participated in the so-called Winter Soldier Investigation >>> where his >>> fellow protesters accused his fellow GIs of war crimes. >>> >>> Kerry's betrayal of American prisoners of war, his blatant >>> disrespect for >>> the families of our missing in action, Vietnam veterans, the >>> military, his >>> support for communist Vietnam and his waffling over the issue of use of >>> force in Iraq proves he is a self promoting Chameleon Senator who >>> cannot be >>> relied on to protect the best interests of the United States. >>> >>> Although Kerry voted to support military intervention in Iraq he is now >>> claiming that he only approved the threat of force by the United >>> States. >>> >>> The Constitution for the United States of America declares: "The >>> President >>> shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United >>> States, and >>> of the militia of the several States when called into the actual >>> service of >>> the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the >>> principal >>> officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject >>> relating to >>> the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to >>> grant >>> reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in >>> cases of impeachment." >>> >>> Read the following and decide for yourself if you trust this man to >>> be our >>> Commander-in-Chief. >>> >>> Young John Forbes Kerry grew up well connected in the upper-class >>> due to his >>> Forbes and Winthrop roots. >>> >>> After training, Kerry volunteered for Vietnam. He served a relatively >>> uneventful six months, far removed from combat, from December 1967 >>> to June >>> 1968, in the electrical department aboard the USS Gridley, a >>> guided-missile >>> frigate that supported aircraft carriers in the Gulf of Tonkin. >>> >>> His ship returned to its Long Beach, Calif., port on June 6, 1968. Five >>> months later, Kerry went back to Vietnam, securing an assignment as >>> "swift >>> boat" skipper. >>> >>> Kerry commanded his first swift boat, No. 44, from December 1968 >>> through >>> January 1969. He received no medals while serving on this craft. >>> >>> While in command of Swift Boat 44, Kerry and crew operated without >>> prudence >>> in a Free Fire Zone, carelessly firing at targets of opportunity >>> racking up >>> a number of enemy kills and some civilians. His body count included-- a >>> woman, her baby, a 12 year-old boy, an elderly man and several South >>> Vietnamese soldiers. >>> >>> "It is one of those terrible things, and I'll never forget, ever, >>> the sight >>> of that child," Kerry later said about the dead baby. "But there was >>> nothing >>> that anybody could have done about it. It was the only instance of that >>> happening." >>> >>> Kerry said he was appalled that the Navy's ''free fire zone'' policy in >>> Vietnam put civilians at such high risk. >>> >>> Kerry experienced his first intense combat action on Dec. 2, 1968. >>> He was >>> slightly wounded on his arm, earning his first Purple Heart. >>> In late January 1969, Kerry joined a five-man crew on swift boat No. 94 >>> completing 18 missions over 48 days, almost all of them in the >>> Mekong Delta. >>> >>> Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a minor >>> shrapnel wound >>> in his left thigh on Feb. 20, 1969. >>> >>> --- >>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >>> Version: 6.0.596 / Virus Database: 379 - Release Date: 2/26/2004 >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>> >>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn