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On 19 Mar 2004 at 10:09, FrankandTeri wrote: > I for one don't know the answer and I am still searching. Now just > for me and no one else, I would try to error on the side of my > conscious. I would also not impose my conscious on anyone else. This > is a difficult subject and should be treated with respect for all > peoples opinions. They should all be valued and then perhaps we will > find the answer in the collective consciousness of man. As influenced > by God of course or whomever or whatever you believe guides mans quest > for truth. > > Frank I think that the major problem with the stem-cell issue (and abortion issues as well) lies with the fact that, thusfar, modern medicine has yet to determine the time that a living embryo/fetus "becomes a human being". For whatever it is worth, we have decided that killing a non-human being is licit, while killing a human (except under very stringent circumstances) is not. My general philosophy (that a human embryo/fetus is fully a human being) dates back to an incident when I was an intern and we had a young woman, 5 months pregnant with her first child, who was found to have uterine cancer. The treatment at that time was insertion of radium implants (and this was generally quite effective in cure of the cancer), but such insertion would kill the fetus. The fetus would then be aborted spontaneously (miscarriage) several weeks after the radium treatment. It was considered that passage of this dead fetus through the cancerous cervix might be detrimental to the treatment of the cancer; and so, the accepted treatment (then) was to perform a "mini-C-section" (the fetus was too large to be evacuated by D & C), remove the fetus, and then proceed with the radium implant. I "scrubbed in" on that procedure as an assistant, and when the fetus was removed (it was about 6 inches long and was clearly a human baby in form), it was placed in a tray next to the operating table. It "kicked" for about 15 minutes before it finally died. After that experience, there was no question in my mind that a fetus was a human being and that it wanted to live just as much as a full-term baby (or already born child). Nowadays, that fetus could possibly have been saved, using modern neonatology techniques. Physicians, using electroencephalograms and other modern techniques, have arrived at a consensus as to when "death" occurs. So-called "brain death is whan you have irreversible cessation of all brain function. Once this is declared, the human being is dead and organs, tissues, etc. can be "harvested". A 2-month fetus, if attached to an electroencephalograph, has a documentable EEG tracing, thus not "brain dead". Thus, what is needed, is a consensus as to when one is "alive" (as a human being), and once this state is reached, it is my opinion that such a human being has all of the rights that any other human being has. This consensus needs to be reached in discussions between scientific, religious, ethical, and legal scholars. Best, Bob ********************************************** Robert A. Fink, M. D., F.A.C.S., P. C. 2500 Milvia Street Suite 222 Berkeley, California 94704-2636 Telephone: 510-849-2555 FAX: 510-849-2557 WWW: http://www.rafink.com/ mailto:[log in to unmask] "Ex Tristitia Virtus" ********************************************* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn