Hi: I agree with Bob, when he says that "what is needed, is a consensus as to when one is "alive" (as a human being), and once this state is reached, it is my opinion that such a human being has all of the rights that any other human being has. This consensus needs to be reached in discussions between scientific, religious, ethical, and legal scholars." However, even if we reach a concensus, this by no means is bound to be a correct decision, since the matter of great impotance will be decided by voting. We should not forget life comes from life. By this definition, human life starts when the egg is fertilize by a sperm. Whether there is a developed brain or not, the sensory fucntions are carried out even at this stage. However, we do not find it a crime to kill the fertilized embryos in the early stages of implantation by taking birth control pills. Several million human embryos are killed every month. Nobody is feeling guilty about this mass murder, except of course the Catholic religion. And yet, when somebody wants to use his own nucleus for therapeutic cloning of stem cells from the blastula stage (5-7 day old), we enter into this ethical objection. I see a serious case of double standard here. Another fact we always forget. That is Nature always over produces the offsprings; only a few survive and make it. Every living organism reproduces much more than the world can support. Most of them do die. That is Nature's way. A fertile female produces approximatly 500 eggs with potential to become human beings, if fertilized. The recent observation on mice would lead us to believe that even adult females can produce more eggs from germline stem cells, increasing the number of eggs produced by each female. A male produces virtually millions of sperms during each ejaculation, yet only one will succeed in fertilizing the egg. Can you imagine what will happen if all these embryos are fertilzed and mature into full human beings? I think we should learn a lesson from Nature and thank God for the Nature's way. Raj ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn