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Lady T Why don't we hear you calling for the banning of the IVF clinics which facilitate the production of all those extra embryos if you want to look at the entire issue, not just focus on one aspect? I agree, all aspects should be questioned and explored. Here are some questions you might want ask yourself as you/we grapple with these thorny issues? Imagine yourself as a jury member. 1. If ESCR research is really murder, equal to the murder of a living human being, what should the penalty be? Death, life in prison? 2. On the real abortion issue: If a fetus is really a person, what should the penalty be, death, life in prison for women who've had abortiions? Or women who've had spontaneous "abortions", as all embryos don't implant. 3. Do you really feel the same way about Susan Smith who drowned her 2 sons and tried to blame it on a black guy, the gal who drowned her 5 children, called 911 and is obviously mentally ill as you do about my "Christian" CG who had an abortion when she was young, and my niece who has had more than one abortion? How about the gal who had a baby at the prom in the restroom and went back to the dance? 4. Should we have abortion and ESCR research investigators and inspectors to see exactly what people are doing? How far are you willing to go with this? You don't have to answer,just think about it. These questions have helped me clarify my own positions. I think "moral" arguments should be consistent. I don't believe in "just" wars. Ray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn