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Mackenzie, just because I don't get it doesn't mean you didn't say it clearly. ;-) I think I am always ready to say, "No, you're not getting rid of me that easy." Yes, it is incumbent upon all of us to be prepared to discuss issues central to our cause, and to combat misinformation and incorrect thinking. Thanks for participating. I may be having an early second childhood, which could see me reverting to my 60's radical roots. (minus the lsd) Didn't we cause a ruckus way back then? Then we all turned into yuppies and went to work for and invested in giant corporations. But we wanted to, and believed we could, change the world for the better. I'd still like to try to do that before I'm done. All the best, Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 7:28 PM Subject: Re: cloning grandma/Rick > i'm with you, rick - i hope i didn't give the impression that i am ready to roll over or that i think anyone else should. rather, i mentioned it in the interest of being prepared for it should one encounter it. i guess i didn't make that clear. > > Rick McGirr <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Mackenzie wrote: "the President's Council of Bioethics has deemed IVF > *sexual* reproduction because, they say, the essence of sexual > reproduction is *really* the union of egg and sperm; this definition > conveniently takes out the IVF counter to the asexual reproduction > argument." > > Well, we'll just have to stop giving creedence to the emperor's > deemings. No matter how they try to spin it, it doesn't make their > illogical arguments make any more sense. They could deem a baseball > to have all the nutritional qualities of a rutabaga, but that doesn't > make baseballs any more edible. The emperor has the bully pulpit and > a huge propaganda machine, and we must remember, as he stands behind > them, that the emperor has no clothes. > > Keep writing, keep countering false propaganda. They have been saying > that there's a culture war going on in America. (another war, the > reasons for which have been wholly manufactured!) After the > elections, the victors are chomping on their stogies and feeling fat > and happy. Best time for a counter strike. Let's deem a few things > ourselves. > > Let the truth be known. Your truth, in your own words. Tell the > story. People need to hear. > > Enjoy! > Rick McGirr > Email: [log in to unmask] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mackenzie" > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 3:22 PM > Subject: Re: cloning grandma > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > "One of his was it would destroy the family because it involves > asexual reproduction. Guess he's never heard of IVF." > > > > Just as an FYI, the President's Council of Bioethics, which seems to > have thrown off even the pretense of being remotely balanced on this > issue (see the most recent issue of The New Atlantis, five essays on > The Embryo Question, easily accessed online at > http://www.thenewatlantis.com/), has deemed IVF *sexual* reproduction > because, they say, the essence of sexual reproduction is *really* the > union of egg and sperm; this definition conveniently takes out the IVF > counter to the asexual reproduction argument. > > > > great letter, rayilyn - thank you. > > > > Mackenzie > > > > > > Rayilyn Brown wrote: > > Whether you are pro or con re therapeutic cloning I strongly > encourage you > > to deluge the Arizona Republic with letters. They won't publish them > all, but > > the level of debate on this issue is very embryonic here in AZ. In > fact > > its about where the Congress was about 3 years ago when they stopped > both > > reproductive and therapeutic cloning in the Senate. We need to at > least raise the > > level of public awareness. > > > > On Sunday there was a a full page with photo of Republican Rep. Bob > Stump > > talking about his HB 2221 banning state funding of both therapeutic > and > > reproductive cloning. It passed today, but not without my objection > in an article > > "Ban on use of Arizona Funds for human cloning advances". I did > manage to knock > > of the "it's immoral, I won't pay for it" argument, but I live in > Surprise, > > not Peoria, AZ The reporter knows very little about this subject. > > > > My advocacy of therapeutic cloning is not supported by all of you, > but what > > I really can't stand is ignorance. Stump didn't even know all the > arguments > > against TC. One of his was it would destroy the family because it > involves > > asexual reproduction. Guess he's never heard of IVF. I sometimes had > to argue > > with myself when I taught Advanced Placement Hiistory, but don't > think I want > > to in this situation. > > > > Anyway, you all know this is a complicated subject not limited to > 200 words. > > Both sides of the issue will be distorted because of the nature and > > constraints of the news media. This does affect you. So please, if > you can, help > > educate Arizona, maybe by focusing on one aspect of the debate in > 200 words or > > less. > > > > Here is their email: [log in to unmask] > > thanks, Ray > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn