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Ray f I thought that religion never change and was not self correcting. I would not be hanging around I have coffee with our Pastor at least once each week and i would like to think that i have helped to change his mind on a lot of issues that are near and dear to you and me, he believes that he must grow in personal views and his sermons reflect his growth. the only exception are the sacraments. Yours and His David L Moreland 10:11 AM 3/19/2005, you wrote: >Wendy\\ > >Science is self-correcting, example, quantum physics and chaos science >tells us more than classical physics and are improvements. Religion is >not self-correcting that is why it is different from science. Science >searches for truth - religion has found it. >Yep, I'm sure of this. >Ray >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> >To: <[log in to unmask]> >Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:51 PM >Subject: Re: Moral certainty > > >>Ray: >>Are you CERTAIN about that? :) (Sorry, couldn't help myself!) Science >>once taught the earth was flat. Things that science has PROVEN are being >>dis-proven every day. >> >>Wendy >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of rayilynlee >>Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:12 PM >>To: [log in to unmask] >>Subject: Re: Moral certainty >> >>Moral certainty is the cause of wars, bigotry, intolerance and much >>suffering. The person who is certain he is right about as yet >>unanswerable questions is a tremendous obstacle to progress. >>Education >>teaches you how much you don't know and defines the boundaries of >>your >>knowledge. >> >>My education tells me a cell is a cell and there is good reason to >>call >>it a cell, not a person. I need to hear some good reasons why a cell >>is >>a person to change my mind, not ooh don't name-call. >> >>Rayilyn Brown, MA major History. minor Philosophy, UCLA >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]> >>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:25 PM >>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >> >> >>>Don: >>> >>>Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more >>>uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is >>right >>>and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the >>work >>>of >>>men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have >>whooped >>>them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always >>>skeptical and tolerant. >>>-- H. L. Mencken, Minority Report (1956) >>> >>> >>>Ned >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Don Mckinley" <[log in to unmask]> >>>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:32 PM >>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-------Original Message------- >>>> >>>>From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>>>Date: 03/15/05 02:07:15 >>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>> >>>>Ned: >>>>What is "the wrong turn" is just a matter of opinion, not fact, but I >>>>can see this discussion is leading nowhere, and the problem of >>finding a >>>>way to come to consensus continues. :( If you would like to continue >>>>this discussion, I think we should take it off the list, but I think >>it >>>>is a waste of time. >>>> >>>>Wendy >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner >>>>Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:28 AM >>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>> >>>>Wendy: >>>> >>>>What would that compromise be? Either we do all that is necessary to >>>>end PD >>>>or we continue being led down the path taking all the wrong turns >>being >>>>lead by those who's primary symbol they march behind is one of >>capitol >>>>punishment. ( the cross ) >>>> >>>> Ned >>>> >>>>wendy NED WE NEED TO WORK TO GETER WHO IS RIGHT I DON'T KNOW I BEEN >>>>FIGHTING PD FOR 35 YEARS I DO WHAT IT TAKES TO BEAT IT I DON'T ASK >>GOD >>>>TO >>>>FIGHT IT FOR ME BUT BELIVE IN GOD GOD I DO NOT UNDER STAND WHAT IS >>THE >>>>TROUBEL I AASK NO HEL I DO FOR MY SELF BUT AM HEAR TO HELP ANY ONE. >>THERE >>>>IS >>>>NO ONE ON THE PD LIST I HAVE EVER BAD M MOUTH WE HAVE EMAIL TO FOR >>THAT >>>>LETS >>>>HELP EACH OTHER SO EMAIL NOT LIST TO COMPLAIN WE ARE TO HELP ONE AND >>>>OTHER >>>>[log in to unmask] Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:17 PM >>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi Ned! >>>>>I understand your point, but I don't know if I agree. I am very much >>>>an >>>>>independent thinker, and I find pros and cons to any side. Just >>>>because >>>>>I am not in the church at this time in my life doesn't mean that I >>>>won't >>>>>be in the future. It is just not something I feel I need at this >>time, >>>>>but who knows what tomorrow will bring? I know people whom I admire >>>>who >>>>>are in the church, and sometimes even independent thinkers need what >>>>>being part of a group can provide. There is strength in numbers, and >>>>if >>>>>we (PWP) could ever compromise and pursue a common goal, just think >>>>what >>>>>could be accomplished! :) >>>>> >>>>>Wendy >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>>>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner >>>>>Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:56 AM >>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>> >>>>>Wendy: >>>>> >>>>>Am I correct when say your independent thinking has led you to not >>>>join >>>>>a >>>>>church, and also have the ability of interpreting the intent of my >>>>>thought >>>>>process? >>>>> >>>>>Ned >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:51 AM >>>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Ned: >>>>>>Belonging to a church does not preclude someone from being an >>>>>>independent self informed thinker. One way to effectively >>communicate >>>>>>might be to stop calling names and assuming that you are better or >>>>>>smarter than they are. By the way, I don't belong to a church, but >>I >>>>>do >>>>>>believe in a higher power. >>>>>> >>>>>>Wendy >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>>>>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner >>>>>>Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:02 AM >>>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>>> >>>>>>Peggy: >>>>>>Please remember when referring to the "church herd" >>>>>>it could never include an independent self informed thinker such >>as >>>>>>your >>>>>>self. What are your thoughts on how to effectively >>>>>>communicate with the church herd. >>>>>> >>>>>>Ned >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Peggy Willocks" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:39 AM >>>>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Ned >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Please remember when referring to the anti-abortionists as the >>>>>"church >>>>>>>herd," that not all of the herd is created equal. I am part of >>the >>>>>>church >>>>>>>herd, but DO NOT agree with the present stand on stem cell usage. >>>>>And >>>>>>>regardless of what anybody says, one CAN be pro-life and an >>advocate >>>>>>of >>>>>>>stem >>>>>>>cells simultaneously. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>(See an article done a while back - >>http://www.parkinsons-information-exchange-network-online.com/parkmail1/ >>>>>>2003c/msg00091.html ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Peggy >>>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Ned Gardner >>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:03 AM >>>>>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Rayilynlee: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The church herd would rather see aborted material go straight to >>the >>>>>>>incinerator rather than used for any stem cell research. You see >>>>>this >>>>>>>deprives the woman of any >>>>>>> >>>>>>>possibility of feeling that something good can come from >>>>>>> >>>>>>>her choice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ned >>>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:54 PM >>>>>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Dee >>>>>>>>These same people are also doing other evil things besides >>opposing >>>>>>ESCR >>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>NT. I tell you we are entering a terrible period of history. >>>>>>>>Ray >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Dolores Buente" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 7:53 AM >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Dear Jennifer, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I share in your frustration. It seems that we are living >>through >>>>>an >>>>>>>>>important chapter in medical and moral history. Later, when >>this >>>>>>period >>>>>>>>>is recorded, >>>>>>>>>it will likely be compared to past practices and beliefs such as >>>>>the >>>>>>>>>Salem >>>>>>>>>witch hunts and the persecution of people who were labeled >>>>heretics >>>>>>>>>because they >>>>>>>>>declared that the world is round. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>History shows us that it often takes much effort and bravery to >>>>>>advance >>>>>>>>>society forward. Look back at the struggle of individuals who >>>>>fought >>>>>>for >>>>>>>>>the right >>>>>>>>>of family planning. They faced the wrath of those people and >>>>>>>>>institutions >>>>>>>>>who declared it sinful to practice birth control. The same >>people >>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>institutions who today declare it sinful to use cells in a >>petrii >>>>>>dish >>>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>alleviate >>>>>>>>>pain and suffering. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Dee >>>>>>>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>>>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>>>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>>>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>mailto:[log in to unmask] >>In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] >In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn