Ned: Science is after the ultimate truth, not necessaily change. Raj ************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 9:53 AM Subject: Re: Moral certainty > Wendy: > > Science is in search of change, to change the way we think and act. Science > likes change. Religion on the other hand is fixed and tries not to change. > > Ned > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 3:51 PM > Subject: Re: Moral certainty > > > > Ray: > > Are you CERTAIN about that? :) (Sorry, couldn't help myself!) Science > > once taught the earth was flat. Things that science has PROVEN are being > > dis-proven every day. > > > > Wendy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of rayilynlee > > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:12 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: Moral certainty > > > > Moral certainty is the cause of wars, bigotry, intolerance and much > > suffering. The person who is certain he is right about as yet > > unanswerable questions is a tremendous obstacle to progress. > > Education > > teaches you how much you don't know and defines the boundaries of > > your > > knowledge. > > > > My education tells me a cell is a cell and there is good reason to > > call > > it a cell, not a person. I need to hear some good reasons why a cell > > is > > a person to change my mind, not ooh don't name-call. > > > > Rayilyn Brown, MA major History. minor Philosophy, UCLA > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]> > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:25 PM > > Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > > > > > >> Don: > >> > >> Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more > >> uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is > > right > >> and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the > > work > >> of > >> men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have > > whooped > >> them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always > >> skeptical and tolerant. > >> -- H. L. Mencken, Minority Report (1956) > >> > >> > >> Ned > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Don Mckinley" <[log in to unmask]> > >> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:32 PM > >> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> -------Original Message------- > >>> > >>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > >>> Date: 03/15/05 02:07:15 > >>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>> > >>> Ned: > >>> What is "the wrong turn" is just a matter of opinion, not fact, but I > >>> can see this discussion is leading nowhere, and the problem of > > finding a > >>> way to come to consensus continues. :( If you would like to continue > >>> this discussion, I think we should take it off the list, but I think > > it > >>> is a waste of time. > >>> > >>> Wendy > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > >>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner > >>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:28 AM > >>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>> > >>> Wendy: > >>> > >>> What would that compromise be? Either we do all that is necessary to > >>> end PD > >>> or we continue being led down the path taking all the wrong turns > > being > >>> lead by those who's primary symbol they march behind is one of > > capitol > >>> punishment. ( the cross ) > >>> > >>> Ned > >>> > >>> wendy NED WE NEED TO WORK TO GETER WHO IS RIGHT I DON'T KNOW I BEEN > >>> FIGHTING PD FOR 35 YEARS I DO WHAT IT TAKES TO BEAT IT I DON'T ASK > > GOD > >>> TO > >>> FIGHT IT FOR ME BUT BELIVE IN GOD GOD I DO NOT UNDER STAND WHAT IS > > THE > >>> TROUBEL I AASK NO HEL I DO FOR MY SELF BUT AM HEAR TO HELP ANY ONE. > > THERE > >>> IS > >>> NO ONE ON THE PD LIST I HAVE EVER BAD M MOUTH WE HAVE EMAIL TO FOR > > THAT > >>> LETS > >>> HELP EACH OTHER SO EMAIL NOT LIST TO COMPLAIN WE ARE TO HELP ONE AND > >>> OTHER > >>> [log in to unmask] Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> > >>> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:17 PM > >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi Ned! > >>>> I understand your point, but I don't know if I agree. I am very much > >>> an > >>>> independent thinker, and I find pros and cons to any side. Just > >>> because > >>>> I am not in the church at this time in my life doesn't mean that I > >>> won't > >>>> be in the future. It is just not something I feel I need at this > > time, > >>>> but who knows what tomorrow will bring? I know people whom I admire > >>> who > >>>> are in the church, and sometimes even independent thinkers need what > >>>> being part of a group can provide. There is strength in numbers, and > >>> if > >>>> we (PWP) could ever compromise and pursue a common goal, just think > >>> what > >>>> could be accomplished! :) > >>>> > >>>> Wendy > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > >>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner > >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:56 AM > >>>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>>> > >>>> Wendy: > >>>> > >>>> Am I correct when say your independent thinking has led you to not > >>> join > >>>> a > >>>> church, and also have the ability of interpreting the intent of my > >>>> thought > >>>> process? > >>>> > >>>> Ned > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> > >>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:51 AM > >>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Ned: > >>>>> Belonging to a church does not preclude someone from being an > >>>>> independent self informed thinker. One way to effectively > > communicate > >>>>> might be to stop calling names and assuming that you are better or > >>>>> smarter than they are. By the way, I don't belong to a church, but > > I > >>>> do > >>>>> believe in a higher power. > >>>>> > >>>>> Wendy > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > >>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:02 AM > >>>>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>>>> > >>>>> Peggy: > >>>>> Please remember when referring to the "church herd" > >>>>> it could never include an independent self informed thinker such > > as > >>>>> your > >>>>> self. What are your thoughts on how to effectively > >>>>> communicate with the church herd. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ned > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Peggy Willocks" <[log in to unmask]> > >>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:39 AM > >>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Ned > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Please remember when referring to the anti-abortionists as the > >>>> "church > >>>>>> herd," that not all of the herd is created equal. I am part of > > the > >>>>> church > >>>>>> herd, but DO NOT agree with the present stand on stem cell usage. > >>>> And > >>>>>> regardless of what anybody says, one CAN be pro-life and an > > advocate > >>>>> of > >>>>>> stem > >>>>>> cells simultaneously. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> (See an article done a while back - > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > > http://www.parkinsons-information-exchange-network-online.com/parkmail1/ > >>>>> 2003c/msg00091.html ) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Peggy > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: Ned Gardner > >>>>>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:03 AM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Rayilynlee: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The church herd would rather see aborted material go straight to > > the > >>>>>> incinerator rather than used for any stem cell research. You see > >>>> this > >>>>>> deprives the woman of any > >>>>>> > >>>>>> possibility of feeling that something good can come from > >>>>>> > >>>>>> her choice. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ned > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> > >>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:54 PM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Dee > >>>>>>> These same people are also doing other evil things besides > > opposing > >>>>> ESCR > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> NT. I tell you we are entering a terrible period of history. > >>>>>>> Ray > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Dolores Buente" <[log in to unmask]> > >>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 7:53 AM > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Dear Jennifer, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I share in your frustration. It seems that we are living > > through > >>>> an > >>>>>>>> important chapter in medical and moral history. Later, when > > this > >>>>> period > >>>>>>>> is recorded, > >>>>>>>> it will likely be compared to past practices and beliefs such as > >>>> the > >>>>>>>> Salem > >>>>>>>> witch hunts and the persecution of people who were labeled > >>> heretics > >>>>>>>> because they > >>>>>>>> declared that the world is round. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> History shows us that it often takes much effort and bravery to > >>>>> advance > >>>>>>>> society forward. Look back at the struggle of individuals who > >>>> fought > >>>>> for > >>>>>>>> the right > >>>>>>>> of family planning. They faced the wrath of those people and > >>>>>>>> institutions > >>>>>>>> who declared it sinful to practice birth control. The same > > people > >>>>> and > >>>>>>>> institutions who today declare it sinful to use cells in a > > petrii > >>>>> dish > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> alleviate > >>>>>>>> pain and suffering. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Dee > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>>>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>>>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>>> > >>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>>> > >>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>> > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>> > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>> > >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >>> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn