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Wendy: Science is in search of change, to change the way we think and act. Science likes change. Religion on the other hand is fixed and tries not to change. Ned ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Moral certainty > Ray: > Are you CERTAIN about that? :) (Sorry, couldn't help myself!) Science > once taught the earth was flat. Things that science has PROVEN are being > dis-proven every day. > > Wendy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of rayilynlee > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:12 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Moral certainty > > Moral certainty is the cause of wars, bigotry, intolerance and much > suffering. The person who is certain he is right about as yet > unanswerable questions is a tremendous obstacle to progress. > Education > teaches you how much you don't know and defines the boundaries of > your > knowledge. > > My education tells me a cell is a cell and there is good reason to > call > it a cell, not a person. I need to hear some good reasons why a cell > is > a person to change my mind, not ooh don't name-call. > > Rayilyn Brown, MA major History. minor Philosophy, UCLA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:25 PM > Subject: Re: Souls in limbo > > >> Don: >> >> Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more >> uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is > right >> and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the > work >> of >> men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have > whooped >> them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always >> skeptical and tolerant. >> -- H. L. Mencken, Minority Report (1956) >> >> >> Ned >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Don Mckinley" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:32 PM >> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >> >> >>> >>> >>> -------Original Message------- >>> >>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>> Date: 03/15/05 02:07:15 >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>> >>> Ned: >>> What is "the wrong turn" is just a matter of opinion, not fact, but I >>> can see this discussion is leading nowhere, and the problem of > finding a >>> way to come to consensus continues. :( If you would like to continue >>> this discussion, I think we should take it off the list, but I think > it >>> is a waste of time. >>> >>> Wendy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner >>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:28 AM >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>> >>> Wendy: >>> >>> What would that compromise be? Either we do all that is necessary to >>> end PD >>> or we continue being led down the path taking all the wrong turns > being >>> lead by those who's primary symbol they march behind is one of > capitol >>> punishment. ( the cross ) >>> >>> Ned >>> >>> wendy NED WE NEED TO WORK TO GETER WHO IS RIGHT I DON'T KNOW I BEEN >>> FIGHTING PD FOR 35 YEARS I DO WHAT IT TAKES TO BEAT IT I DON'T ASK > GOD >>> TO >>> FIGHT IT FOR ME BUT BELIVE IN GOD GOD I DO NOT UNDER STAND WHAT IS > THE >>> TROUBEL I AASK NO HEL I DO FOR MY SELF BUT AM HEAR TO HELP ANY ONE. > THERE >>> IS >>> NO ONE ON THE PD LIST I HAVE EVER BAD M MOUTH WE HAVE EMAIL TO FOR > THAT >>> LETS >>> HELP EACH OTHER SO EMAIL NOT LIST TO COMPLAIN WE ARE TO HELP ONE AND >>> OTHER >>> [log in to unmask] Original Message ----- >>> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> >>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:17 PM >>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ned! >>>> I understand your point, but I don't know if I agree. I am very much >>> an >>>> independent thinker, and I find pros and cons to any side. Just >>> because >>>> I am not in the church at this time in my life doesn't mean that I >>> won't >>>> be in the future. It is just not something I feel I need at this > time, >>>> but who knows what tomorrow will bring? I know people whom I admire >>> who >>>> are in the church, and sometimes even independent thinkers need what >>>> being part of a group can provide. There is strength in numbers, and >>> if >>>> we (PWP) could ever compromise and pursue a common goal, just think >>> what >>>> could be accomplished! :) >>>> >>>> Wendy >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:56 AM >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>> >>>> Wendy: >>>> >>>> Am I correct when say your independent thinking has led you to not >>> join >>>> a >>>> church, and also have the ability of interpreting the intent of my >>>> thought >>>> process? >>>> >>>> Ned >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> >>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:51 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ned: >>>>> Belonging to a church does not preclude someone from being an >>>>> independent self informed thinker. One way to effectively > communicate >>>>> might be to stop calling names and assuming that you are better or >>>>> smarter than they are. By the way, I don't belong to a church, but > I >>>> do >>>>> believe in a higher power. >>>>> >>>>> Wendy >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ned Gardner >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:02 AM >>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>> >>>>> Peggy: >>>>> Please remember when referring to the "church herd" >>>>> it could never include an independent self informed thinker such > as >>>>> your >>>>> self. What are your thoughts on how to effectively >>>>> communicate with the church herd. >>>>> >>>>> Ned >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Peggy Willocks" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:39 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ned >>>>>> >>>>>> Please remember when referring to the anti-abortionists as the >>>> "church >>>>>> herd," that not all of the herd is created equal. I am part of > the >>>>> church >>>>>> herd, but DO NOT agree with the present stand on stem cell usage. >>>> And >>>>>> regardless of what anybody says, one CAN be pro-life and an > advocate >>>>> of >>>>>> stem >>>>>> cells simultaneously. >>>>>> >>>>>> (See an article done a while back - >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> > http://www.parkinsons-information-exchange-network-online.com/parkmail1/ >>>>> 2003c/msg00091.html ) >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Peggy >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Ned Gardner >>>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:03 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rayilynlee: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The church herd would rather see aborted material go straight to > the >>>>>> incinerator rather than used for any stem cell research. You see >>>> this >>>>>> deprives the woman of any >>>>>> >>>>>> possibility of feeling that something good can come from >>>>>> >>>>>> her choice. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ned >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:54 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dee >>>>>>> These same people are also doing other evil things besides > opposing >>>>> ESCR >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> NT. I tell you we are entering a terrible period of history. >>>>>>> Ray >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Dolores Buente" <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 7:53 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Jennifer, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I share in your frustration. It seems that we are living > through >>>> an >>>>>>>> important chapter in medical and moral history. Later, when > this >>>>> period >>>>>>>> is recorded, >>>>>>>> it will likely be compared to past practices and beliefs such as >>>> the >>>>>>>> Salem >>>>>>>> witch hunts and the persecution of people who were labeled >>> heretics >>>>>>>> because they >>>>>>>> declared that the world is round. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> History shows us that it often takes much effort and bravery to >>>>> advance >>>>>>>> society forward. Look back at the struggle of individuals who >>>> fought >>>>> for >>>>>>>> the right >>>>>>>> of family planning. They faced the wrath of those people and >>>>>>>> institutions >>>>>>>> who declared it sinful to practice birth control. The same > people >>>>> and >>>>>>>> institutions who today declare it sinful to use cells in a > petrii >>>>> dish >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> alleviate >>>>>>>> pain and suffering. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dee >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>> >>>>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>>> >>>>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>>> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn