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Wendy, Dr. L's experiment is definitely adult stem cell research\ I called his office at Cedars Sinai in LA in 2003 before I had my DBSs You have to donate your brain cells and wait and there are no guarantees. Because he has a grant the surgeries are free but his fee to see him I heard is six figures. Medicare doesn't cover it. They had just approved DBS before I had mine done. What I meant by the possibility of anyone becoming President was an argument actually made in a debate between bioethhicists on this issue. just because something is possible doesn't mean it is going to happen, like every sperm and egg,, live human germ cells, will not become a person. I do think you're right about anger. If I was well I would still take the same position, but having PD is what makes me so mad. The debate would be more detached and academic if my quality of life wasn't at stake. When I had ovarian cancer I wasn't angry because there was nothing much that could be done that wasn't being done. not so with PD,, we/vet lost four years of research. I think it may also depend on the kind of person you are.so I'm not saying if you had PD yourself you would feel any differently..I know there are people with PD who oppose NT and are not angry like me. I have always been very independent and a doer. PD is worse than cancer in my opinion. You can't forget it for one minute Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Cure for PD/Wendy > Ray: > Thank you for the logical discussion. :) Is Dr. L's research the same as > adult stem cell research? I thought they were two separate things. If > so, this is an opportunity for me to correct my misunderstanding, and I > appreciate the info. > > Personally, I don't buy the "Presidential potential" argument for saving > embryos - to me a president's life is no more valuable than any other > life, so the argument has no point. > > I'm not sure if I understand your comment about the actual vs the > potential. Isn't the potential what the embryonic stem cell debate is > all about? > > I do understand what you are saying about assisted suicide. I have said > that myself - I am able to help my dogs (who are my children) pass on > when it is time, but when things have become unbearable for my husband > (or any other loved one) I will not legally be able to do the same, and > I think that is a shame. I understand why others feel differently, and I > believe that they are entitled to their opinions, but this is one of > many issues that I feel no "moral certainty" about. :) > > I know that you and many others on this list are a wealth of > information, and I appreciate the chance to improve my knowledge of > Parkinson's issues here, but often I am so put off by the > (understandable) anger, that it is hard to get the message. From your > last post, for the first time I feel that we may be able to actually > communicate, and I can learn valuable information. At the same time, I > do understand the need to rant, and I will try to be less reactive when > you do. > > My heartfelt thanks. :) > > Wendy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of rayilynlee > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:09 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Cure for PD/Wendy > > Wendy > > Personally, I don' think just replacing brain cells is going to do it,as > Dr. Levesque's patient Dennis Turner's PD returned after a few years > holiday from PD, time bought by using his own brain cells. > > I think one of the research purposes of therapeutic cloning is to > learn > the causes of diseases, which is certainly needed for cures. Also they > don't think the rejection problem that comes with organ transplants > would > exist. Opponents of NT say these blastocysts could under the right > circumstances become people. Well, so could any sperm or egg, living > human > germ cells. > > Anybody, potentially could become President of the US with all the > status, rights and powers the office confers. But we all know that is > not > going to happen for most all of us. > > I believe it makes sense to deal first with what is actual rather > than potential. and that NT should be a no-brainer. > > One thing this argument does confirm is that life evolves. That Adam's > rib > story is not going to make it into the discussion. > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wendy Siegel" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 10:43 PM > Subject: Re: Cure for Parkinson's disease in three years: > > >> Ray: >> We agree on this point - "Public ignorance perhaps needs to be > addressed >> first before we can realize any progress." Education is the key to >> WHATEVER the answer is. Most people (again on both sides of the issue) >> ARE making their decisions without knowing what is really involved. >> >> The one point I think can't be overcome is the point about when life >> begins. I would stop fighting that point though, and put more emphasis >> on the point you have made about fertilization clinics and left over >> embryos which will be destroyed anyway. I DO find it ridiculous that > no >> uproar is raised over the "leftover" embryos for purposes of >> procreation, which is (in my mind) not as serious an issue as the life >> and death issues of PWP, while at the same time there is an uproar > over >> ESCR. I cannot think of a logical argument against getting some use > out >> of embryos which will otherwise be destroyed for nothing. Logically, >> either both should be illegal, or both should be legal. >> >> Wendy >> PS: Surprised? :) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of rayilynlee >> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:12 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: Cure for Parkinson's disease in three years: >> >> From time to time I look myself up on the Web and was surprised to > find >> answers to one of my letters of almost a year ago (these are sites > given >> me >> by Diane) which indicated that an unknown percentage of people think > PD >> is >> just aging and we are trying to defeat death by supporting ESCR. >> >> One guy suggested cryogenics. I can't seem to make the point that it > is >> THIS >> LIFE THAT IS SO HARD TO LIVE and alone too. >> >> People seem to think you just get sick and die soon. They don't seem >> to >> understand that some diseases steal your life while you are alive and > it >> is >> not all just old people. >> Perhaps this is the common ground we can find between supporters and >> non-supporters of ESCR. Unless you have an incurable disease, care for >> someone who does, it is almost impossible to understand. >> >> Guy who did my taxes thinks I need to relax more so I can talk and his >> wife >> has MS which is episodic. and she has had only one episode. >> >> Public ignorance perhaps needs to be addressed first before we can >> realize >> any progress. The only thing people seem to know is "that actor" MJFox >> >> It is very disheartening as I know people have been trying to raise >> public >> awareness for years. The well need to walk in our shoes. >> Ray >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "nina p. brown" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:18 AM >> Subject: Cure for Parkinson's disease in three years: >> >> >>> Cure for Parkinson's disease in three years: >>> [Health News]: London, March 14 : >>> A safe treatment for Parkinson's disease could be available in as >> little >>> as three years, thanks >>> to new research in stem cell therapy. >>> >>> Scientists at Scotland's Roslin Institute have managed for the > first >>> time to culture stem cells - >>> which can differentiate themselves into any kind of human cell - >> without >>> using animal-derived >>> products, the daily Scotsman reported. >>> >>> Earlier, research had demonstrated that stem cells from pigs could >> help >>> reverse symptoms of >>> Parkinson's disease when implanted in a sufferer's brain. >>> >>> However, this carries the risk of the patient developing a deadly >> new >>> cross-species disease which >>> has potentially devastating consequences - for example, vCJD, which > is >> a >>> fatal new condition >>> originating in animals. >>> >>> Previously, human stem cells - usually derived from embryos, >> angering >>> the pro-life lobby - have >>> been grown in a culture of animal tissue, also risking cross-species >>> contamination. >>> >>> But Roslin scientists, led by Paul De Sousa, have managed to > culture >>> stem cells from donated >>> embryos - which, in this case, are the "surplus" from fertility >>> treatment - in a medium derived from >>> human tissue, the first time this has been done in the world. >>> >>> They are now looking to create a way of mass-producing stem cells, >> as >>> millions are required to >>> repair damage to the brain. >>> >>> De Sousa said he believed that, in three to five years, following >>> further research in animals, it >>> should be possible to start implanting human stem cells in patients >>> affected by Parkinson's disease. >>> >>> >>> He said: "We are still away - it's one thing to produce the cells. >> Now >>> myself and other groups >>> need to be efficiently producing the types of cells in the culture >> dish >>> that are useful for >>> treatment. >>> >>> "We've got to walk before we can run. We're talking another three > to >>> five years before we could >>> be at the point where we have enough pre-clinical animal model data > to >>> have some confidence in the >>> cells we can put into people." >>> >>> Producing stem cells without using any animal-derived tissue is a >>> crucial step because it >>> prevents the possibility of cross-species disease. >>> >>> "If stem cells are ever going to be useful for people, we have got >> to >>> find a way to produce them >>> safely and efficiently," De Sousa said. >>> >>> "For the most part, the state of the field as it had stood was that >>> there was a reliance on >>> either animal cells or products from animal tissues. >>> >>> "We have isolated four (cell lines) to date and one of these four >> has >>> been isolated in a >>> completely different media - a coating of a human protein, normally >> found >>> on the outside of cells >>> that helps cells stick together. >>> >>> "There is no direct exposure to animal cells or to animal >> tissue-derived >>> products such as serum." >>> >>> >>> Pro-life groups have condemned the use of embryos to provide stem >> cells >>> and have claimed adult >>> stem cells, such as those found in bone marrow, could be used > instead. >>> >>> De Sousa said research into the use of adult stem cells - which >> would >>> mean the patient's own >>> tissue could be used, avoiding immune system problems - should >> continue. >>> >>> However, given the current level of knowledge, he felt embryonic >> stem >>> cells were more effective. >>> >>> Last month, another Roslin scientist, Professor Ian Wilmut, who >> created >>> Dolly the Sheep, was >>> granted a licence to clone human embryos to help further stem cell >>> research. It is thought this >>> could lead to cures for diabetes, quadriplegia and blindness, as well >> as >>> Parkinson's and other >>> conditions. >>> >>> Robert Meadowcroft, head of policy and information at the >> Parkinson's >>> Disease Society, said the >>> work at Roslin would hasten the use of stem cell treatment - either > as >> a >>> cure or a therapy - in >>> human patients. >>> >>> "This looks like being a very important piece of work that will >>> potentially shorten the period of >>> time to clinical trials in patients and we very much welcome this >>> research," Meadowcroft said. >>> >>> Indo-Asian News Service >>> >>> >>> Nina >>> "Circumstances determine our lives, but we shape >>> our lives by what we make of our circumstances." >>> Sir John Wheeler Bennett, a British historian >>> >>> >>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >>> mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn