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Rick I like the medieval mystic Meister Eckhardt's little story about life being like a bird flying into a room from where we don't know and out the window to we don't know where either Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick McGirr" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 6:44 AM Subject: Re: Moral certainty > Well... > > In the times when John's Revelation was written, man had no idea that > we are flying thru space on a tiny speck of dust, on the outer arm of > a spiral galaxy, in a universe that has uncounted millions of > galaxies. Further, his prediction of a fiery conflagration as the > last chapter of earth's history will only come true if enough of us > believe the story. But if it happens, WWIII on earth will be an > indiscernable blip on the energy scope for most of the universe. > > Science doesn't know much more than John about the end of the > universe. We are like travelers who woke up in the middle of a bus > trip to find our bus has busted the guardrail and is airborne. We're > trying to figure out what happened. But at least we are not jumping > to conclusions. > > Is science uncommon? It's becoming moreso in these days of religious > fervor. But it shouldn't be. People don't know it, but we all use > the scientific method several times a day. But there's a point at > which people's beliefs get in the way, and the scientific method is > abandoned, in order to avoid the pain of discovery. > > I think it is wise to have assumptions, rather than set-in-stone > beliefs. I try, humbly, to live each day based on the preponderance > of evidence, to put it clumsily. > > That's a little of what I think. What do you think? > > Enjoy! > Rick McGirr > Email: [log in to unmask] > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:46 PM > Subject: Re: Moral certainty > > >> Rick: >> >> What is scientific about common sense? >> >> By definition it is only common. >> >> Science and religion do agree that the >> end of the "she-bang" will be rather warm. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Ned >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rick McGirr" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 2:13 PM >> Subject: Re: Moral certainty >> >> >> > As a matter of fact, I take great comfort in the fact that my > beliefs >> > are verifiable, and refutable, through the scientific method (also >> > known as common sense). There is nothing truly permanent in the >> > universe, including the whole she-"bang" itself. And that is the > true >> > source of humility. >> > >> > Rick >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]> >> > To: <[log in to unmask]> >> > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 1:59 PM >> > Subject: Re: Moral certainty >> > >> > >> >> Ray: >> >> >> >> Reasonable doubt; moral certainty >> >> >> >> >> >> When one is "beyond doubt" or an issue has been settled "beyond >> > doubt," it >> >> means that certainty has been established to such a degree that >> > there can be >> >> no question whatsoever of the truth. On almost every question, > the >> > only >> >> people who claim to be 100% beyond doubt are gods, egotists, and >> > fanatics. >> >> Mature people generally allow for the possibility, however slim, >> > that what >> >> they Know for Certain may be disproved. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> REASONABLE DOUBT -- ".refers to the degree of certainty required > of >> > a juror >> >> before he or she can make a legally valid determination of the > guilt >> > of a >> >> criminal defendant.The term doesn't require that the evidence be > so >> > clear >> >> that no possibility of error exists; it means that the evidence > must >> > be so >> >> conclusive that all reasonable doubts are removed from the mind > of >> > the >> >> ordinary person. See also moral certainty." >> >> >> >> "MORAL CERTAINTY -- certainty beyond a reasonable doubt; a >> > conviction based >> >> on persuasive reasons and excluding doubts that a contrary >> > conclusion can >> >> exit. A juror is said to be morally certain of a fact when he or > she >> > would >> >> act in reliance upon its truth in matters of greatest importance > to >> > himself >> >> or herself." >> >> >> >> "REASONABLE MAN (OR PERSON) -- a phrase used to denote a >> > hypothetical person >> >> who exercises qualities of attention, knowledge, intelligence and >> > judgment >> >> that society requires of its members for the protection of their > own >> >> interests and the interests of others." >> >> >> >> Ned >> >> >> >> From http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_ >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:11 PM >> >> Subject: Re: Moral certainty >> >> >> >> >> >> > Moral certainty is the cause of wars, bigotry, intolerance > and >> > much >> >> > suffering. The person who is certain he is right about as > yet >> >> > unanswerable questions is a tremendous obstacle to progress. >> > Education >> >> > teaches you how much you don't know and defines the >> > boundaries of >> >> > your >> >> > knowledge. >> >> > >> >> > My education tells me a cell is a cell and there is good > reason >> > to call >> >> > it a cell, not a person. I need to hear some good reasons > why >> > a cell >> >> > is >> >> > a person to change my mind, not ooh don't name-call. >> >> > >> >> > Rayilyn Brown, MA major History. minor Philosophy, UCLA >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]> >> >> > To: <[log in to unmask]> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:25 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Don: >> >> >> >> >> >> Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The >> > more >> >> >> uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely > what >> > is >> >> >> right >> >> >> and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has > been >> > the work >> >> >> of >> >> >> men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who >> > have >> >> >> whooped >> >> >> them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is >> > always >> >> >> skeptical and tolerant. >> >> >> -- H. L. Mencken, Minority Report (1956) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ned >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: "Don Mckinley" <[log in to unmask]> >> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:32 PM >> >> >> Subject: Re: Souls in limbo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - >> > -- >> >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> >> > >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn