Amen to that! It is very hard to change people's ideas and perspectives. Most people tend to come to a conclusion and stick to it, often in the face of evidence to the contrary. They begin to become territorial over their beliefs, and to cluster into two groups "us" and "them", and argue about who is "right" and who is "wrong". It becomes a power struggle to see who "wins". I don't think the question is who "thinks" and who "doesn't think". We all think - but differently. We have no "proof" of the "truth" of one side or another. Each side of the stem cell argument has good points in my opinion. Here is a summary, if I understand the issues correctly - and I may not: Supporters of embryonic - argue that it will save post-birth life or quality of life Detractors of embryonic - argue that the concerns about life should not be limited to post birth. If three day embroyos are not considered "alive" then what about 4 day? 5? If we allow testing on 3 day old embryos, then discover that it would be more helpful to do 4 day, then 5.. where does it stop? Supporters of embryonic - argue that we need to pursue all avenues of research to get to a cure faster Detractors of embryonic - might argue if that is the reasoning, then why don't we experiment on prisoners? We could probably find a cure even faster Supporters of embryonic - argue that if we are going to destroy embryos anyway, why not get use from their destruction? Detractors of embryonic - I think (and I am not sure) that the argument would be that we don't want to create a market for "farming" embryos I guess an overall argument I am hearing is: Supporters of embryonic - science should not be deterred Detractors of embryonic - God's will should not be deterred The bottom line causing the problem is when does life begin? Neither side can prove or disprove. If we could do this, I think the argument could be solved. If you make the argument that life begins when brain waves start, and ends when they end, then why can't we experiment on people who are brain dead as well as embryos? By the way, I am not promoting any of the above experiments, I am just attempting to show the two logical sides of each argument. I am not trying to start more arguments, I am trying to promote thinking about the problem as opposed to ranting. It is late, I'm tired, and I'm rambling now. I am sure there are a lot of problems with what I just wrote. I await more input, and my comeuppance! :) Wendy -----Original Message----- From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of R.Rajaraman Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:51 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Moral certainty Hi Wendy: You are right. Science is after the ultimate truth, which is hard to come by in the absence of all the info one needs to make a conclusion. That is why today's scientific fact is tomorrow's non-fact. As a scientist, one is always aware of such things. However, even scientists will refuse to change their concepts, clinging to their own pet theories, until everybody else rejects the theory. A good example is my discovery of neosis, a novel type of cell division in cancer. I will not be surprized if people do not realize the significance of my findings even after two decades. We have been brainwahsed to think that there are only two types of cell division, mitosis and meiosis. Even for scientists it is hard to change the mindset. I can undrerstand the problems of the common man. Look how long it took for the world to accept the truth that the earth is spherical and not flat! Raj *********** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn