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I agree with the description of faith from Hebrews. It is assuredness about things that you can't know for sure, like the sun coming up tomorrow, or your spouse making it home from work alive, or the finding of a cure for PD. How daunting life would seem if we could have no faith in a better world and a better life in the future. Enjoy spring! Rick McGirr Email: [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L Moreland" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Light and enlightenment > I th.ink thatt Ned's definitiion is a bit shy of what the > biblical writer had in mind in Hebrew11:1 in the following: > "Now fauth is the asurance of things hoped for; the conviction of > things not seen" after saying this the writer gives several > exanples from their history so that. they dont miss the point he > os making...It might be good for us all to read the rest of the 11th > chapter of Hebrews. > > > > rayilynlee wrote: > > > I like Ned's "Faith is believing something you know is not true" > > although > > I've never heard it described that way before. Somewhere in your > > heart you > > know it is very problematic. of rtings not se nnnow,l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is it I can't believe what I can't believe - is it because it is true > > and I just don't understand it or not true at all? I guess the religious > > would say they have received the gift of grace to believe. or perhaps > > we are > > bound by the limits of our intelligence. > > > > Light, the quintessence of the universe according to Einstein, is both a > > wave and particle, depending upon your perception. This scientific > > concept > > seem to be more in line with modern religions like Religious Science or > > Deepak Chopra's blend of Eastern and Western religious thought. than the > > Bible despite the fact that in the Bible God said, " let there be light", > > not space or time, and Jesus said, "I am the light". Claude Monet said > > "the subject of every real painting is light." > > > > Think some more about it. For example, the Mormon "Pearl of Great Price" > > requires monumental mental gymnastics and contortions of logic, . I > > think, > > to believe. > > Ray > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ned Gardner" <[log in to unmask]> > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 4:10 AM > > Subject: Re: Evil View of Suffering > > > > > >> Faith is believing something you know is not true. > >> > >> > >> I don't really think that is the usual definition of Faith. > >> > >> > >> Kind of like PD is not the usual? > >> > >> > >> Faith has two components, one is self created: > >> A person believes in something, say the existence of God(or not) > >> This belief is essentially internally generated, based on one's > >> environment and world view, and desire to deal in reality. > >> > >> > >> What ever mental gymnastics one must go through to believe that there > >> suffering is somehow preordained and justified is it self rather > >> bazaar. Please speak to the issue that some are distended to suffer so > >> that your belief system can be fully justified. > >> > >> > >> > >> Faith is believing something you know is not true. > >> > >> Ned > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > > > > 1 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn