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I heard a discussion on the radio yesterday, in which a questioner brought out the well used line, that the excess embryos are going to be destroyed anyway, so why not allow them to be used in research, and the panelist responded that the same logic would allow experimentation on death row inmates or terminally ill people. This is a valid point, and I actually am going to stop using the 'garbage' argument. But the plain, scientifically and legally supported fact remains: these cells which were willfully created in a lab are not people, nor were they created by god to be blessings to their "parents". Further, the cells could only possibly become people after being inseminated and brought to term. No one dies when one of these embryos is used for its stem cells. No, it's us who are being destroyed slowly by our afflictions. And I will continue to ask the 'snowflake' crowd, if you want to save lives, how about mine, Rayilynn's, Mackenzie's, and millions of the rest of us? Anyway, how dare the naked emperor pose for photos with a bunch of kids made by artificial insemination, use them as a bogus reason to restrict ESCR, and then turn around and blow up some more Iraqis and Americans? He is the ultimate hypocrite. Enjoy Summer! Rick McGirr Email: [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:03 PM Subject: Re: Stem cells as people > Mackenzie, > Opponents of embryonic stem cell research claim a "person" is being murdered > or killed when blastocysts are used for research. Theoretically and > actually they could become a person if they survive thawing, succeed in > implantation in a womb, survive gestation and are born alive. This is the > "moral" argument against using blastocysts for research. They don't seem to > oppose the IVF clinics that produce and routinely discard them in the IVF > process. > > Nuclear transfer, an unfertilized egg and one's own DNA, COULD possibly lead > to your own delayed twin being born, like > Snuppy the dog, although all legislation that I've heard of bans that. I > personally am not offended by human cloning, but there is a great fear of it > among opponents of ESCR, they re afraid it will lead to that. > > In the Congress they are kicking around ideas re legislation that would > allow for taking a cell to create stem cell lines from an embryo w/out > destroying the embryo, something like they do in gene checking for defects > in the IVF process. No animal research has been done on this. > > I still don't know what they will do with the extra embryos, unless they can > get them all "adopted" which is a pretty daunting task. > > I don't think 100 microscopic undifferentiated cells are a person, but > bestowing personhood and a SSN on these cells would make it easier to > overturn Roe v. Wade. It has been made into an > abortion issue, which I think is wrong. > Ray > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:23 PM > Subject: Re: Hurlbut, Bioethics and Hypocrisy > > > > thank you, rayilynlee - but i have never understood > > the whole stem cells as people thing... i imagine > > there is some reasoning that escapes me - would you > > explain it to me? > > > > thank you! > > mackenzie > > > > --- rayilynlee <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > >> Very interesting article Mackenzie, read a blog last > >> night that had a very > >> short letter - If stem cells are people, why aren't > >> they counted in the > >> census? Ray > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]> > >> To: <[log in to unmask]> > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:57 PM > >> Subject: Hurlbut, Bioethics and Hypocrisy > >> > >> > >> > article on Blogger News Network about the > >> > "alternative" methods for obtaining ESCs, and the > >> > hypocrisy they reveal, among other things: > >> > > >> > > >> > > http://www.bloggernews.net/showstory.asp?page=blognews/stories/HM0000059.txt > >> > > >> > mackenzie > >> > > >> > __________________________________________________ > >> > Do You Yahoo!? > >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > >> protection around > >> > http://mail.yahoo.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > >> > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] > >> > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >> > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > >> mailto:[log in to unmask] > >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > >> > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn