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Agreed, Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick McGirr" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 5:10 AM Subject: Re: Stem cells as people >I heard a discussion on the radio yesterday, in which a questioner > brought out the well used line, that the excess embryos are going to > be destroyed anyway, so why not allow them to be used in research, and > the panelist responded that the same logic would allow experimentation > on death row inmates or terminally ill people. > > This is a valid point, and I actually am going to stop using the > 'garbage' argument. But the plain, scientifically and legally > supported fact remains: these cells which were willfully created in a > lab are not people, nor were they created by god to be blessings to > their "parents". Further, the cells could only possibly become people > after being inseminated and brought to term. No one dies when one of > these embryos is used for its stem cells. No, it's us who are being > destroyed slowly by our afflictions. And I will continue to ask the > 'snowflake' crowd, if you want to save lives, how about mine, > Rayilynn's, Mackenzie's, and millions of the rest of us? > > Anyway, how dare the naked emperor pose for photos with a bunch of > kids made by artificial insemination, use them as a bogus reason to > restrict ESCR, and then turn around and blow up some more Iraqis and > Americans? He is the ultimate hypocrite. > > Enjoy Summer! > Rick McGirr > Email: [log in to unmask] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:03 PM > Subject: Re: Stem cells as people > > >> Mackenzie, >> Opponents of embryonic stem cell research claim a "person" is being > murdered >> or killed when blastocysts are used for research. Theoretically and >> actually they could become a person if they survive thawing, succeed > in >> implantation in a womb, survive gestation and are born alive. This > is the >> "moral" argument against using blastocysts for research. They don't > seem to >> oppose the IVF clinics that produce and routinely discard them in > the IVF >> process. >> >> Nuclear transfer, an unfertilized egg and one's own DNA, COULD > possibly lead >> to your own delayed twin being born, like >> Snuppy the dog, although all legislation that I've heard of bans > that. I >> personally am not offended by human cloning, but there is a great > fear of it >> among opponents of ESCR, they re afraid it will lead to that. >> >> In the Congress they are kicking around ideas re legislation that > would >> allow for taking a cell to create stem cell lines from an embryo > w/out >> destroying the embryo, something like they do in gene checking for > defects >> in the IVF process. No animal research has been done on this. >> >> I still don't know what they will do with the extra embryos, unless > they can >> get them all "adopted" which is a pretty daunting task. >> >> I don't think 100 microscopic undifferentiated cells are a person, > but >> bestowing personhood and a SSN on these cells would make it easier > to >> overturn Roe v. Wade. It has been made into an >> abortion issue, which I think is wrong. >> Ray >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:23 PM >> Subject: Re: Hurlbut, Bioethics and Hypocrisy >> >> >> > thank you, rayilynlee - but i have never understood >> > the whole stem cells as people thing... i imagine >> > there is some reasoning that escapes me - would you >> > explain it to me? >> > >> > thank you! >> > mackenzie >> > >> > --- rayilynlee <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> > >> >> Very interesting article Mackenzie, read a blog last >> >> night that had a very >> >> short letter - If stem cells are people, why aren't >> >> they counted in the >> >> census? Ray >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:57 PM >> >> Subject: Hurlbut, Bioethics and Hypocrisy >> >> >> >> >> >> > article on Blogger News Network about the >> >> > "alternative" methods for obtaining ESCs, and the >> >> > hypocrisy they reveal, among other things: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > > http://www.bloggernews.net/showstory.asp?page=blognews/stories/HM0000059.txt >> >> > >> >> > mackenzie >> >> > >> >> > __________________________________________________ >> >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >> >> protection around >> >> > http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> >> > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> >> > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________ >> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> > >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn