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Mackenzie, I think you are correct. But I have read it also called a fetus, infant, baby by opponents of ESCR. . Tom Delay said it would be "dismembering a human being" if it was used for research. I think it is the blastocyst stage of embryonic development, which contains about 100 microscopic undifferentiated cells whose status is up for grabs. Sure proves that life evolves though, doesn't it? . If one cell is taken out to develop stem cell lines for research, however, as it is in IVF gene testing, not destroying the embryo or blastocyst as proposed by some legislators as way to circumvent the ethical concerns, ,then it is the cell, not the entire clump of cells. You still have a blastocyst and what do you do with it if it is not "adopted"? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 12:34 AM Subject: Re: Stem cells as people > Hi rayilynlee, > > thanks for the info - i don't know whether it is a > matter of semantics or what but it is my understanding > that it is the blastocyst itself that is considered to > be the potential person, rather than the stem cells > extracted from it - it is the blastocyst as a whole > that would go on to develop into an embryo - the stem > cells are just the building blocks. does that make > sense? > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> >> > To: <[log in to unmask]> >> > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:03 PM >> > Subject: Re: Stem cells as people >> > >> > >> >> Mackenzie, >> >> Opponents of embryonic stem cell research claim a >> "person" is being >> > murdered >> >> or killed when blastocysts are used for research. >> Theoretically and >> >> actually they could become a person if they >> survive thawing, succeed >> > in >> >> implantation in a womb, survive gestation and are >> born alive. This >> > is the >> >> "moral" argument against using blastocysts for >> research. They don't >> > seem to >> >> oppose the IVF clinics that produce and routinely >> discard them in >> > the IVF >> >> process. >> >> >> >> Nuclear transfer, an unfertilized egg and one's >> own DNA, COULD >> > possibly lead >> >> to your own delayed twin being born, like >> >> Snuppy the dog, although all legislation that >> I've heard of bans >> > that. I >> >> personally am not offended by human cloning, but >> there is a great >> > fear of it >> >> among opponents of ESCR, they re afraid it will >> lead to that. >> >> >> >> In the Congress they are kicking around ideas re >> legislation that >> > would >> >> allow for taking a cell to create stem cell lines >> from an embryo >> > w/out >> >> destroying the embryo, something like they do in >> gene checking for >> > defects >> >> in the IVF process. No animal research has been >> done on this. >> >> >> >> I still don't know what they will do with the >> extra embryos, unless >> > they can >> >> get them all "adopted" which is a pretty daunting >> task. >> >> >> >> I don't think 100 microscopic undifferentiated >> cells are a person, >> > but >> >> bestowing personhood and a SSN on these cells >> would make it easier >> > to >> >> overturn Roe v. Wade. It has been made into an >> >> abortion issue, which I think is wrong. >> >> Ray >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:23 PM >> >> Subject: Re: Hurlbut, Bioethics and Hypocrisy >> >> >> >> >> >> > thank you, rayilynlee - but i have never >> understood >> >> > the whole stem cells as people thing... i >> imagine >> >> > there is some reasoning that escapes me - would >> you >> >> > explain it to me? >> >> > >> >> > thank you! >> >> > mackenzie >> >> > >> >> > --- rayilynlee <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Very interesting article Mackenzie, read a >> blog last >> >> >> night that had a very >> >> >> short letter - If stem cells are people, why >> aren't >> >> >> they counted in the >> >> >> census? Ray >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: "mackenzie" <[log in to unmask]> >> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:57 PM >> >> >> Subject: Hurlbut, Bioethics and Hypocrisy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > article on Blogger News Network about the >> >> >> > "alternative" methods for obtaining ESCs, >> and the >> >> >> > hypocrisy they reveal, among other things: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > http://www.bloggernews.net/showstory.asp?page=blognews/stories/HM0000059.txt >> >> >> > >> >> >> > mackenzie >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> __________________________________________________ >> >> >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> >> >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best >> spam >> >> >> protection around >> >> >> > http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> >> >> > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> >> >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> >> >> > In the body of the message put: signoff >> parkinsn >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> >> >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> >> >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> >> >> In the body of the message put: signoff >> parkinsn >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ____________________________________________________ >> >> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home >> page >> >> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> >> > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> >> > In the body of the message put: signoff >> parkinsn >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> > mailto:[log in to unmask] >> > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? 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