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Nor is it logical to jump to the conclusion that just because the wonders of nature fascinate our meager understanding, that there must be somebody tinkering with creation like Santa Claus handles Christmas. Of course, we kids know who really buys the presents. How arrogant, to think that a god made us humans to be just like him. Enjoy Fall! Rick McGirr Email: [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paula Nixon" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 4:39 AM Subject: Re: The Scientific Method and intelligent design >I support scientific method. They don't have any "simple" cells. >Wouldn't you think there would still be some simple cells today. >Paramecium, amoeba, any you see are very complex, even from the >Cambrian layer. > > Gaps in knowledge are understandable and forgivable. Darwin said > that "geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated > organic chain and this, perhaps is the most obvious and serious > objection which can be urged against the theory. The explanation > lies, as I believe, in the extreme imperfection of the geological > record." Charles Darwin, 'On the imperfection of the geological > record', Chapter X, The Origin of Species. However 120 years later > it isn't any better. We have a quarter of a million fossil species, > but no intermediates. Steven Jay Gould could see there was a real > problem and came up with Punctuated Equilibrium, quick changes > between species, the reptile egg hatches into a bird. But how did > the bird developer hollow bones, a different number of chambers in > heart, and on and on. How could an incompletely changed bird > survive with only partial changes? How could a bombardier beetle > develop his two chemical chambers that mix and eject them through a > strategically positioned at the rear of the beetles body where it > explodes in a noxious 212 degree steam in his predators face. It > has to let the gases out at just the correct time so they explode > outside his body. How many of them blew themselves up because they > only had one chamber while trying to develop this? Or didn't have > the strategically placed tube? Where did the idea to develop the > fireworks come from? Where are the ancestors? He seems to be the > only one like him. When you have a simple, snap mousetrap that is > missing any one of it's parts, it won't work. This is true of > almost everything alive. Everything is so beautifully designed. > One part is dependent on 6 if not 20 others and vice versa. How > about butterflies. Why in the world would they have evolved going > through all those steps to become a butterfly? The thing is, the > more you know about the earth and flora and fauna, it just couldn't > have just happened, even in 4.5 billion years. Its just not l! > ogical. > Time doesn't make things better, things are just running down. > Mutations are almost always bad, if not fatal. Where did the > "information" in DNA come from? Energy and matter don't make > information. Mathematicians say that 4 1/2 billion years isn't long > enough to develop the earth. > > I understand that 6,000 years sounds ridiculous to someone who has > been only taught evolution. If the earth were as old as they say, > all the continents on earth would be worn down to sea level in just > 14 million years, and the oceans would have accumulated at least 30 > times more sediment than there actually is. Geologists know the > rate that Niagara Falls is eroding back. It has only taken 5,000 > years to erode from its original precipice. The short period comets > should have been gone in 10,000 years. They are still here, so the > scientists made up Oort clouds as nests of new comets. Never saw > one, but must be. The earth's magnetic field is decaying rapidly. > Only 8,000 years ago the earth's magnetic strength would have been > equal that of a magnetic star, and a million years ago it would have > been impossibly high. Meteoric dust is falling constantly. If this > had been going on for 5 million years, huge deposits would be found. > They don't exist. The amount of nickel in! > the > oceans from the dust measures out to be several thousand years not > million. N.A.S.A. was so worried about it on the first moon > landing, they figured that the dust would be so deep the lunar ship > would sink into it, so they spent millions of dollars putting big > pontoons on the ship . Turned out only a centimeter or two of dust > was found as you would expect of a young earth. Helium is > continuously being formed in the earth's crust. But there isn't > enough helium in the atmosphere to correspond to the old age, It has > been calculated that the absolute maximum age of the earth on the > basis of helium production would be 26 million years, not 4.5 > billion. Salt in the sea, not enough for for the claimed age. I > could go on. According to the Big Bang, all the planets are moving > apart. How come we can still see the moon that is moving away from > us? How come the sun didn't incinerate us when we were closer? > The oldest living thing, the bristle cone pine, is only 4000 years > old! > . The > great barrier reef is only 4,000 years. These would fit with the > flood. > > Because evolution doesn't know everything yet, is still a theory, > and still has lots of problems, why can't they show just the > scientific parts of Intelligent Design in the schools along side of > it. Let the students see what sounds logical. No mention of the > Bible. And any other religious theory of development of the earth > that has science behind it also could be included, but there aren't > any. > > Bush and I don't mistrust science, we mistrust scientists that are > trying to hang onto their theory,(many times just to avoid God,) and > hold back any other theories. As I said before, science is very > political in its own realm. There are lots of scientists that don't > believe in global warming, and say that any warming we are seeing is > just because we are in a cycle. I remember 20 or 30 years ago they > said we were headed for an ice age. I read in a nature magazine > last week that we are causing global warming by fertilizing our > lawns, for heaven sake! > Man doesn't cause an nth of global warming compared to one little > volcano. Notice the lack of comments about the cancer problems in > some areas because of the ozone hole nowadays. It's turned out not > to be a problem. > > As to Bush's cronies, wouldn't you put people around you that you > trusted and didn't think they were off the deep end with unproven > theories? Any other way would be stupid. > > Well, good night good people. I'll read your interesting comments > later. > > Paula > > > . > > > Charles Meyer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > PAULA, Ray and KF > > I support Ray and KF. Just because a single cell is complex that > does not mean that the progenitors of that single cell were nearly > as > complex. as the single cell organism of today > > How old is the Earth and the universe? Is it as the Bible says > 5-6000 > yrs old or is it the millions of years old evolutionists say it is? > Steven Jay Gould is probably rolling over in his grave now with you > using his words that to justify the teaching of intelligent design. > He > was a strong supporter of evolution and in fact is one of my heroes > in > that regard. Because there are gaps in the evidence does not mean > the > theory is not true only that we don't know everything yet. > > Intelligent design may well be important but it belongs in a class > where > religion is taught not in a science class. Because different > religions > teach different origins of the the universe and all of them should > be > taught to be "fair and balanced" .Maybe a history of religion > curriculum should be devised that puts equal emphasis on all of > them, - > or would that be too threatening to the religious Right. An > understanding of evolution is crucial in an understanding of much of > medicine. Any attempt to dilute it with Intelligent design as > opposed > to challenge it with rational scientific facts is an abomination.. > > Let us look at our president and his failure to weigh > evidence..Rather > than use science and the scientific method. Rather, like you. has a > mistrust of science. Rather than using it to help him understand the > world he counts on god, intuition and cronies to make decisions and > then when they are proven wrong he fails (with the exception of > Katrina) > to change directions. He certainly should use prayer if it works for > him, and intuition but scientific method allows for mid course > corrections based on evidence. > CHARLES T MEYER MD > > CHARLIE > > K . F. Etzold wrote: > >> Paula Nixon wrote: >> >>> Dear Ray >>> When Darwin first started talking about Evolution, it sounded very >>> rational that life evolved from the simple cell which was thought >>> to >>> be a jelly like mass of protoplasm with a nucleus. I remember >>> drawing those in school. Now we know there is no such thing as a >>> simple cell, it is a single cell. In 1963 Dr. George Palade of the >>> Rockerfeller Institute in NY, discovered it was an amazingly >>> intricate system of incredibly fine tubes and chain of minute bags >>> that totally permeate the entire cell. To summary your 10 pages of >>> the "simple cell" It has structural design, energy generators, >>> invasion guards , transport systems, food factories, waste >>> disposal >>> systems, protective barriers, communication links within and >>> without >>> the cell city that it is. Just the "skin" of the cell is amazing. >>> It controls the entry and exit of everything for the cell, almost >>> as >>> if it had a chemical sense of taste as it grabs or rejects the >>> needed >>> nutrients into the cell by forming a little "finger"! >> >> ! >> >>> that >>> reaches out and pulls the needed nutrient inside. Then there is >>> the >>> DNA and RNA! Science hasn't a clue how this could have just >>> happened, but they don't say that in the schools or in science >>> books, >>> or if they do it is very low keyed. It couldn't have just >>> happened. >>> >>> There was a quote I read once, that I can't find when I need it, >>> that >>> said, "Evolution expects us to believe the unbelievable, but to do >>> otherwise is to believe in a Creator and that is unacceptable." >>> Paula >>> >> Paula: >> >> Just because the scientific community does not know everything does >> not >> imply or force us to speculate on intelligent design. Any scientist >> worth his salt will readily "admit" that his/her knowledge is >> limited. >> The leap from this is unjustified and illogic. Had scientists made >> that >> leap all scientific progress would have stopped, because there is >> no >> more knowledge to obtain. >> A basic tenet is that our understanding of nature is always >> incomplete >> and that we must strive for further knowledge. If we had accepted >> the >> scientific knowledge of say 200 years ago >> there would be a faith based understanding of, for instance, the >> cell >> but no modern medicine no modern biology. Indeed our present >> society is >> inconceivable had we accepted the '"final" knowledge of 200 years >> ago. >> >> The details of the construction of the cell is just what I >> described in >> my article on science: The knowledge was refined but that does not >> change our basic understanding. Just because something is >> complicated >> does not imply intelligent design. The little finger you describe >> has >> some man made analogs. Chemistry can now construct molecules at >> will >> with specific properties (such as a little finger). But I would >> argue >> that these molecules were not created by God. Most pharmacological >> products were designed that way and in fact the latest Nobel prize >> nin >> Chemistry rewards such a new process. If one did not know how this >> was >> arrived at one could readily argue it was intelligent design. >> >> K. F. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn