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(CBS) "Well, when President Bush says he opposes using embryos for stem-cell research because that would be destroying an embryo, what does it mean that embryos are already being destroyed?" Stahl asks Caplan. "To me, it means that the president's policy is hypocritical and deceptive," he replies. "And I say that deliberately because it is not a secret that embryos are destroyed at infertility clinics." "So we have a policy that says, 'Can't destroy them for research. I, as president, cannot abide it.' Every day a clinic somewhere, destroys one - no one says anything," Caplan adds. Asked why the embryos slated for destruction shouldn't be made available for research, George says, "The principle that the president laid down and which I support is one that says all human beings, irrespective of age or size or stage of development or condition of dependency, possess the same human dignity, because human dignity is inherent." "Are you equating these embryos, these frozen embryos, with a full-grown man or woman?" Stahl asks. "I'm saying they have the dignity of a human being, the way a full-grown man or woman has the dignity of a human being," he replies. "And you're equating them?" Stahl asks. "Oh, sure," George says. "Yeah, I'm equating them in terms of human dignity." What does he mean by "dignity"? "I mean, shouldn't simply be thrown out in the trash. Should be treated respectfully, the way we treat the remains of human beings at later stages of development," George explains. "Like what? Like have burials?" Stahl asks. "Buried or burned," George replies. "You're saying, take these little bunches of cells, and have burials for them?" Stahl asks. "Well, you say bunches of cells in order to make burials sound weird," George says. "But those bunches of cells are very unique bunches of cells. Those are human beings in the earliest stages of their natural development. You were one once; I was one once." "Well, if the president thinks that these are human beings, why is there no policy or proposal against this discarding into the trash bin?" Stahl asks. "I don't see politicians flocking to regulate fertility clinics." "Oh, no, that's certainly true. Politicians aren't flocking," George says. Asked why, he says: "Well, I think politicians are afraid to touch the issue of fertility, because they fear that it's the true third rail of American politics, maybe a more dangerous issue even than Social Security. Politicians do fear the potential political backlash of trying to regulate the industry." Art Caplan says no matter what the politicians do, thousands and thousands of the excess embryos will end up being destroyed anyway. "Freezing them longer and longer and longer is basically to destroy them," says Caplan. But some people argue these embryos are life. "Well some people say they're life, and my response is: you can slowly destroy them or you can destroy them in a quicker way," Caplan says. "But to say that their fate is anything other than destruction is a delusion, and everybody knows it. There's no escaping it. Once you realize there are 400,000 frozen embryos, some of which are in bad shape, some of which have been there a long time, you can give all the life speeches you want, they're not going anywhere. And if you want to feel good about it and say, 'Well, they're frozen,' then it's like saying 'No one will die in America, cause we have cryogenics. We'll freeze everybody's body and then death won't happen.' " After agonizing for 13 years, the Madsens finally made their decision: their four embryos are going to stem-cell research. But George doesn't think couples like the Madsen's should even have the right to make that decision. "This is a decision that we as a community have to make. It can't be left to individual choice to decide," he says. "Why not? Why not leave it to individual choice when it comes to an embryo? Why isn't that a religious decision for the couples to make?" Stahl asks. "It's certainly not a religious decision anymore than infanticide is a religious decision," George says. "You can find ancient cultures whose religions authorized infanticide. But that didn't make it right. And that doesn't mean that we should accept it." 1 | 2 | 3 By Rich Bonin ©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. INSIDE 60 Minutes Billions Wasted In Iraq? U.S. Official Says Oversight Was "Nonexistent" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn