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CG of Rod Adams: Thanks so much for your response, loved it, a great statement of the anti-ESCR position! (1) cells are people (2) love it or leave it I don't believe a microscopic undifferentiated cell is a person. If I did I would of course agree with you. I think ALL stem cell research should be pursued with federal funding, and again we are talking about cells here not people. I even believe we should have universal healthcare like most industrialized nations. Yes, I always come down on the side of actual over potential non-existent people. The case of China (aren't your clothes and household goods made there?) was used because: (1) It is interesting about the Chinese nannies and the recognition by some that English, like Greek, Latin, and French could become superfluous. (2) We should be reminded that we are not the only people in the world and don't rule all of it yet. Nor has any civilization held power forever no matter who their god/gods were. Scott Antes interesting info on China showing how it was ahead of the West in almost every way in the Middle Ages should tell you that there is a reality (not an example) in the world that you will either deal with or not. Telling someone to "love it or leave it" and then praying for them does not compute. Also, due to my increasing disability it may be impossible for me to leave, even for treatment, like some people are already doing. Again, thanks for responding, Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Adams" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 3:28 PM Subject: Re: Time to learn Mandarin >I and my husband have watched for months as Ray got more and more bitter >and > argumentative on the whole stem cell issue. My husband is also a PD > patient, > I Love him dearly, but would never want the death of another to be of no > importance just so he could feel better. I myself have COPD among other > health problems, if they told me tomorrow that because of a child's death > I > could breathe easier the guilt would not be worth it. I know abortions are > performed every day, my fear is if we establish a demand America being the > country it is, we will most assuredly create a supply. I picture poverty > stricken women being paid to abort fetuses and harvest their fertilized > eggs. How much will the going rate be? It is always our poor that have to > use these shortcuts to make ends meet. > I find it unbelievable that you would use China as a example: with their > forced abortions, I suppose it is a good place to find a ready supply. > Even with testimonials of alternative procedures that may work you still > can't see the forest for the trees. If using your own stem cells has any > merit at all wouldn't that be more appealing than benefiting from a death? > I > realize another alternative would be to forcibly take other people's > stored > embryos, but if I forcibly took your car I would go to jail. How is this > any > different? > I think you should learn Mandarin and plan to move to China lets see what > kind of rights you would have there, with any luck you can join the > experiment, Lord knows they should have the supply for your demand. > We all want a cure I just believe God has a better way. I am so proud we > have a president that is willing to follow his conscience, his heart and > his > Lord. > No offense but you will be in our prayers. > Mr. and Mrs. Rod Adams and family. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:07 PM > Subject: Time to learn Mandarin > > >>I saw on TV today that in NY people were hiring Chinese "nannys" so their >> kids could learn Chinese. After seeing PBS program I started reading >> "1421 >> The Year China Discovered America". About 1424 with the death of the >> Emperor China turned inward and lost their maritime lead. Kind of like >> we >> are surrendering our lead in science today and much more in the past 5 >> years. Civilizations do not hold on to hegemony forever. I just copied >> about half of the article, concentrating on stem cell research. >> ray, MA History >> >> Blinding Science: China's Race to Innovate >> The country is making a move to be a leader in science, medicine, >> technology, R&D, and energy -- and the government is behind the charge >> Looking for the cutting edge of stem cell science? Instead of Stanford or >> Cambridge or Singapore, consider Shenzhen. That's where Chinese >> entrepreneur >> Sean Hu has set up one of the most radical businesses in the field. Hu is >> chairman of Beike Biotech, a joint venture involving the Shenzhen >> government, Peking University, and the Hong Kong University of Science >> and >> Technology. >> >> Launched last year, Beike specializes in stem cell treatments that >> doctors >> in the U.S. wouldn't dare to try experimentally, let alone commercially: >> taking stem cells from aborted fetuses and implanting them into patients >> with otherwise incurable diseases. >> >> In the U.S., simply using stem cells from embryos is controversial. >> That's >> not the case in China, where regulators are also far more permissive >> about >> experimental therapies than their U.S. counterparts. So far, Hu and his >> doctors have treated more than 100 patients suffering from autism, ALS >> (Lou >> Gehrig's disease), crippling strokes, and other severe problems. Now, Hu >> plans to make Beike a nationwide company with global reach. "We will be >> able >> to apply the most advanced stem cell technology and use our network to >> collaborate with foreign biotech companies," he says. >> >> IT'S A SCIENCE. Hu's ambitions -- and the regulations that allow him to >> operate -- indicate just how far China is going in its attempt to build a >> more modern, flexible economy. In Beijing, innovation is the buzzword. >> President Hu Jintao set the tone in January with his call for China to >> make >> the transition from a manufacturing-based economy to an innovation-based >> one. Innovation was a major theme at the recently concluded National >> People's Congress, with the government unveiling its latest five-year >> plan >> calling for big increases in spending to nurture innovation. >> >> China is targeting a broad range of sectors, including some controversial >> areas such as stem cells, gene therapy, and genetically modified crops; >> and >> some areas that the U.S. has long dominated, including software, >> semiconductors, and space exploration. And China aims to become a leader >> in >> emerging technologies such as renewable energy sources ranging from >> solar, >> hydro, and wind power to fuel cells. By 2050, China intends to surpass >> the >> U.S. and become the biggest player in the world of science. >> >> There are many reasons that Beijing wants to push the innovation agenda. >> One >> is national pride: As a great nation that was coming up with innovative >> breakthroughs when Europe was in the Dark Ages, China believes it should >> be >> a leader, not a follower. Another reason is national security. The >> Communist >> regime doesn't like being at the mercy of foreigners for key >> technologies. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn