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just in case it wasn't clear, people who have embryos that they will not try to implant after undergoing IVF have three options regarding those embryos: they can donate them to another couple, they can allow clinic personnel to destroy them or they can donate them to research. as long as IVF is undertaken, couples will choose not to donate to other couples, and embryos will be destroyed. --- mackenzie <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > From mackenzie Sun Apr 2 12:08:32 2006 > Received: from [70.107.112.42] by > web53312.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 02 Apr 2006 > 12:08:32 PDT > Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:08:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: mackenzie <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: Time to learn Mandarin - IVF & ESCR > To: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > <[log in to unmask]> > In-Reply-To: > <000401c655db$aaff88b0$6701a8c0@yoursz6x6sefxo> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Content-Length: 3836 > > hi there mr. and mrs. adams and family, > > as long as IVF is undertaken, embryos *will be > destroyed,* either by IVF clinic personnel, or > privately funded research, or by the process of > freezing and thawing, or by the culling that occurs > in > the process of selecting those that are suitable for > implantation. > > given that undeniable, incontrovertible reality, the > determination we all need to make is this - which is > worse - destroying an embryo in the course of > undertaking research that could help millions, or > just > destroying an embryo - because that embryo *will be > destroyed,* one way or the other, regardless of > whether bush allows federal funding, and regardless > of > whether ESCR is legal. > > second, just so we are clear, the president's policy > hasn't necessarily saved any embryos - it has only > given some people the peace of mind of knowing that > they are not funding research involving the > destruction of embryos. > > finally, i can only speak for myself, but i think > ray > would agree with me - of *course* i would be > overjoyed > if ASCs showed some promise for treating PD. > however, > to date, they have not, and ESCs have. > > the embryos are going to be destroyed whether there > is > research or not. *that* is reality. if you would > care > to address this question in view of that reality, i > am > very much interested in hearing your thoughts. > > mackenzie > > > --- Rod Adams <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > I and my husband have watched for months as Ray > got > > more and more bitter and > > argumentative on the whole stem cell issue. My > > husband is also a PD patient, > > I Love him dearly, but would never want the death > of > > another to be of no > > importance just so he could feel better. I myself > > have COPD among other > > health problems, if they told me tomorrow that > > because of a child's death I > > could breathe easier the guilt would not be worth > > it. I know abortions are > > performed every day, my fear is if we establish a > > demand America being the > > country it is, we will most assuredly create a > > supply. I picture poverty > > stricken women being paid to abort fetuses and > > harvest their fertilized > > eggs. How much will the going rate be? It is > always > > our poor that have to > > use these shortcuts to make ends meet. > > I find it unbelievable that you would use China as > a > > example: with their > > forced abortions, I suppose it is a good place to > > find a ready supply. > > Even with testimonials of alternative procedures > > that may work you still > > can't see the forest for the trees. If using your > > own stem cells has any > > merit at all wouldn't that be more appealing than > > benefiting from a death? I > > realize another alternative would be to forcibly > > take other people's stored > > embryos, but if I forcibly took your car I would > go > > to jail. How is this any > > different? > > I think you should learn Mandarin and plan to move > > to China lets see what > > kind of rights you would have there, with any luck > > you can join the > > experiment, Lord knows they should have the supply > > for your demand. > > We all want a cure I just believe God has a better > > way. I am so proud we > > have a president that is willing to follow his > > conscience, his heart and his > > Lord. > > No offense but you will be in our prayers. > > Mr. and Mrs. Rod Adams and family. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "rayilynlee" <[log in to unmask]> > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:07 PM > > Subject: Time to learn Mandarin > > > > > > >I saw on TV today that in NY people were hiring > > Chinese "nannys" so their > > > kids could learn Chinese. After seeing PBS > > program I started reading > > > "1421 > > > The Year China Discovered America". About 1424 > > with the death of the > > > Emperor China turned inward and lost their > > maritime lead. Kind of like we > > > are surrendering our lead in science today and > > much more in the past 5 > > > years. Civilizations do not hold on to hegemony > > forever. I just copied > > > about half of the article, concentrating on stem > > cell research. > > > ray, MA History > > > > > > Blinding Science: China's Race to Innovate > > > The country is making a move to be a leader in > > science, medicine, > > > technology, R&D, and energy -- and the > government > > is behind the charge > > > Looking for the cutting edge of stem cell > science? > > Instead of Stanford or > > > Cambridge or Singapore, consider Shenzhen. > That's > > where Chinese > > > entrepreneur > > > Sean Hu has set up one of the most radical > > businesses in the field. Hu is > > > chairman of Beike Biotech, a joint venture > > involving the Shenzhen > > > government, Peking University, and the Hong Kong > > University of Science and > > > Technology. > > > > > > Launched last year, Beike specializes in stem > cell > > treatments that doctors > > > in the U.S. wouldn't dare to try experimentally, > > let alone commercially: > > > taking stem cells from aborted fetuses and > > implanting them into patients > > > with otherwise incurable diseases. > > > > > > In the U.S., simply using stem cells from > embryos > > is controversial. That's > > > not the case in China, where regulators are also > > far more permissive about > > > experimental therapies than their U.S. > > counterparts. So far, Hu and his > > > doctors have treated more than 100 patients > > suffering from autism, ALS > > > (Lou > > > Gehrig's disease), crippling strokes, and other > > severe problems. Now, Hu > > > plans to make Beike a nationwide company with > > global reach. "We will be > > > able > > > to apply the most advanced stem cell technology > > and use our network to > > > collaborate with foreign biotech companies," he > > says. > > > > > > IT'S A SCIENCE. Hu's ambitions -- and the > > regulations that allow him to > > > operate -- indicate just how far China is going > in > > its attempt to build a > > > more modern, flexible economy. In Beijing, > > innovation is the buzzword. > > > President Hu Jintao set the tone in January with > > his call for China to > > > make > > > the transition from a manufacturing-based > economy > > to an innovation-based > > > one. Innovation was a major theme at the > recently > > concluded National > > > People's Congress, with the government unveiling > > its latest five-year plan > > > calling for big increases in spending to nurture > > innovation. > > > > > > China is targeting a broad range of sectors, > > including some controversial > > > areas such as stem cells, gene therapy, and > > genetically modified crops; > > > and > > > some areas that the U.S. has long dominated, > > including software, > > > semiconductors, and space exploration. And China > > aims to become a leader > > > in > > > emerging technologies such as renewable energy > > sources ranging from solar, > > > hydro, and wind power to fuel cells. By 2050, > > China intends to surpass the > > > U.S. and become the biggest player in the world > of > > science. > > > > > > There are many reasons that Beijing wants to > push > > the innovation agenda. > > > One > > > is national pride: As a great nation that was > > coming up with innovative > > > breakthroughs when Europe was in the Dark Ages, > > China believes it should > > > be > > > a leader, not a follower. Another reason is > > national security. The > > > Communist > > > regime doesn't like being at the mercy of > > foreigners for key technologies. > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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