Hello Colleagues. Thanks for your question Sandy. I take your point
Sandy, that we should faithfully and accurately tell students what is
standard usage, and it's confusing when there are contradictory rules in
our reference books ... and Russ adds the excellent point that in
everyday writing practice, the "standard" is in fact based on which
community you are writing in at the time, and so students need to be
skilled in discovering the norms and adapting to them (whether one
decides to assimilate or to risk resisting the norm).
This issue seems similar to the one Isocrates discussed way back in
393BC. I think many CASLL'ers would agree with Isocrates' observations
about the ways in which some teachers can focus too much on "the right
way" to use language as if the right way were always what handbooks and
textbooks say it ought to be.
[12] But I marvel when I observe these men setting themselves up as
instructors of youth who cannot see that they are applying the
analogy of an art with hard and fast rules to a creative process.
For, excepting these teachers, who does not know that the art of
using letters [spelling? or handwriting?] remains fixed and
unchanged, so that we continually and invariably use the same
letters for the same purposes, while exactly the reverse is true of
the art of discourse? For what has been said by one speaker is not
equally useful for the speaker who comes after him; on the contrary,
he is accounted most skilled in this art who speaks in a manner
worthy of his subject and yet is able to discover in it topics which
are nowise the same as those used by others. But the greatest proof
of the difference between these two arts is that oratory is good
only if it has the qualities of fitness for the occasion, propriety
of style, and originality of treatment, while in the case of letters
there is no such need whatsoever.
This just happened to be on my mind because I have the pleasure of being
able to teach "Rhetorical History & its Applications" 8 hrs a week this
term ...
Tania Smith
University of Calgary
Russ Hunt wrote:
>I'm concerned at the assumption that we need to teach students
>"the right way" or even the "generally accepted" way (which I
>don't believe actually exists). It seems to me we need to teach
>them how to figure out what's accepted in the community they're
>writing in at the moment (and why it matters that they should be
>able to do that, and do it).
>
>-- Russ
>
>
>
>>Hi Sandy. In the EAP courses at the Faculty of Extension at the U of
>>A, we have always relied on the "Ready Reference Handbook" (2005) by
>>Dodds & Jewinski. In the sample document provided for APA style (p.
>>411), page one is the title page. On the other hand, on page 392, the
>>MLA style document indicates that page 1 is the beginning of the
>>actual content (not the title page and table of contents which is
>>numbered with roman numerals). Hope this helps. Gloria Michalchuk
>>
>>
>>
>>Quoting Sandy Dorley <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>>
>>
>>>We have found a discrepancy in the information we are giving students at
>>>my college. We have been telling them to number their documents,
>>>beginning on the SECOND page of text. That means that there are no
>>>numbers on either the first page or on the title page. We teach them
>>>APA documentation format.
>>>
>>>However, we have discovered that according to strict APA, numbering
>>>starts with the title page and continues thereon. The MLA style manual,
>>>however, says that page numbering should begin with the first page, but
>>>can be changed according to "teacher preference." For some reason, we
>>>have all been told, in our own education, NOT to number the title or
>>>first page of the papers we turned in.
>>>
>>>What is the accepted style? These students are in business classes and
>>>in technology classes. I realize that we have probably gotten two
>>>styles mixed up, but we want them to do what is generally accepted.
>>>
>>>Professor Sandy Dorley
>>>School of Liberal Studies
>>>Conestoga College, Kitchener, ON
>>>519-748-5220 x3819
>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>Professor Sandy Dorley
>>>School of Liberal Studies
>>>Conestoga College, Kitchener, ON
>>>519-748-5220 x3819
>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>> To leave the list, send a SIGNOFF CASLL command to
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>>>
>>>For the list archives and information about the organization,
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>>> http://www.stu.ca/inkshed/
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> To leave the list, send a SIGNOFF CASLL command to
>> [log in to unmask] or, if you experience difficulties,
>> write to Russ Hunt at [log in to unmask]
>>
>>For the list archives and information about the organization,
>> its newsletter, and the annual conference, go to
>> http://www.stu.ca/inkshed/
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>
>>
>
>St. Thomas University
>http://www.stu.ca/~hunt/
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> To leave the list, send a SIGNOFF CASLL command to
> [log in to unmask] or, if you experience difficulties,
> write to Russ Hunt at [log in to unmask]
>
>For the list archives and information about the organization,
> its newsletter, and the annual conference, go to
> http://www.stu.ca/inkshed/
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>
>
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
To leave the list, send a SIGNOFF CASLL command to
[log in to unmask] or, if you experience difficulties,
write to Russ Hunt at [log in to unmask]
For the list archives and information about the organization,
its newsletter, and the annual conference, go to
http://www.stu.ca/inkshed/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
