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Thanks, Greg, for clarifying the vaccines and IVF excess embryos hyprocrisies. I was pretty sure what I was passing on was true, but it is hard to be sure. "human diploid cells" hmmmm. The Catholic church is consistent on the issues of IVF, ESCR and this war, opposing all three. I'm learning from Diane Wyshak's posts on polls re ESCR that a majority of ALL people support ESCR. I know a majority is not always right, but I would argue that the "religious right" is wrong most of the time today and should not be dictating public policy. Her posts also indicate that people of faith are attempting to challenge the RRs hijacking of Jesus and the GOP. I wish them well. In the meantime, while science is shelved, we wait......turning to stone...... Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Wasson" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: Re: Old Enough to Remember; Young Enough to Learn The last time I researched this issue, probably in 2003, Art and Ray, The last time I researched this issue, probably in 2003, some companies still used "human diploid cells," read fetal tissue from elective abortions, in the preparation of polio vaccine. And in case anybody has forgotten, the President is on record as supporting in vitro fertalization, which deliberately produces excess embryos using superovulation techniques, in order to give potential moms and dads the pick of the litter, so to speak. Those not selected for implantation get a one-way ticket to excess-embryo land, that is, a bio-dumpster. IVF is why we have 400,000 excess embryos to begin with. The hypocrisy of supporting IVF and opposing escr is so Orwellian it makes my head spin - or is that dyskinesia? BTW, two thumbs up for "V" Ray. "Willy Loman never made a lot of money. His name was never in the paper. He's not the finest character that ever lived. But he's a human being, and a terrible thing is happening to him. So attention must be paid...Attention, attention must finally be paid to such a person." - Arthur Miller - Death of a Salesman ----- Original Message ---- From: Arthur Hirsch <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:31:56 AM Subject: Old Enough to Remember; Young Enough to Learn Rayilyn, You post so much good material that it is often difficult to digest it all. The recent post concerning polio includes what I consider to be a "clincher" argument for stem cell research. Let me repeat two paragraphs of that post in hopes that more "skimmers," such as I usually am, will pick it up and possibly read the entire editorial: >I was surprised. I never knew that the initial research that ultimately >led >to the defeat of polio was based upon experiments on aborted fetal tissue. >I wonder. To what degree is the "religious right" aware? And if they were >to become aware, would that awareness manifest as some religious uprising >against the use of polio vaccine? Would some parents refuse to get their >children vaccinated as a form of protest? >Almost no one today refuses polio vaccination for their children on the >grounds that they object to the methods used in the first experiments. I >would point out that even President Bush has been willing to use the >harmless downstream results of research to which he objects." At 10:35 PM 9/28/2006, you wrote: >#230 Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - GUEST EDITORIAL: by Jeff Eisen, from >his website at: www.stemcellpage.com (The editorial may also be found on this website, but dated 09-20-06.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message pu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn t: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn