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Hi Rick; You make a good point, one that I have embraced for at least half a century, but to debate on which side has more idiots would not be appropriate here, and I am commenting on the subject of ESCR at the invitation of Ray. She has already discounted my response, i.e., Dr. Prentice and his testimony before the Maryland House Committees, but I'd like to get specific and ask a few questions, based on his testimony. Keep in mind that I don't claim to be an expert nor do I have any education or training in this science. And Ray, you obviously know more about him than I do. But these questions will be taken from his testimony before Congress. 1. Does the science behind "somatic cell nuclear transfer" promote the use of cloning technology to create human embryos for experiments? 2. Is it true that almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell: the fertilized ovum. (zygote)? 3. Do you agree that the National Academy of Sciences' definition of "embryo" includes, "In medical terms, embryo usually refers to the developing human from fertilization (the zygote stage)?.... 4. Is it true, as stated by Dr. Prentice, that "Both Reproductive and Therapeutic cloning use exactly the same techniques to create the clone, and the cloned embryos are indistinguishable? 5. Is it true that "therapeutic cloning requires the creation of and disaggregation ex utero of blastocyst stage embryos"? 6. Is it true that "Unlike much stem cell research, which can use spare embryos remaining from infertility procedures, CRNT (cell replacement through nuclear transfer AKA "therapeutic cloning") requires the deliberate creation and disaggregation of a human embryo. (and this is, evidently, where the Ethics question begins). So, the way I see it, and the reason abortion has been thrown into the mix, Ray; those who have no problem with aborting "fetuses" will have no problem with ESCR. And Rick, I'd be careful of promoting an issue that has to rely on what is done "for the greater public". History cries out to us to learn from the past, and not repeat the events that have been done under that guise. The problem was in who determined what was good. In that regard, if Obama Care is fully implemented, seniors may very well be individually scrutinized as to their viability. Those decisions will also be made considering "the public good". If you don't believe it, there's plenty on the web on both sides of the issue. But for me, Obama Care is going to adversely impact all seniors, particularly those in need of major medical care. (Such as ESC treatments)? Regards, Dave -----Original Message----- From: Rick McGirr Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 12:33 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Lets talk about ESC Mania! Hello, folks, Ray, thanks for the invitation. "....come on, his constituents don't take him seriously, why should you?" My answer: because idiots vote. Misinformation is one of the chief tools in any political contest. If enough people are ill-informed, they will cause wrong-headed bills to bubble up to the top of public discourse, like this poor, misguided buffoon in Oklahoma has done. It's curious that this legislator has, himself, bubbled to the top of Okla politics. It's unfortunate that medical research has to sit on its hands while these 'chicken-licken's' slowly grasp what is actually happening. I think the best prophylactic for misguided ideas is a good dousing with correct information and up-to-date discussion focusing on reality, the scientific method, and the good of the greater public, tenets of public discourse back when I was attending public schools. Rick -----Original Message----- From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rayilyn Brown Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 3:37 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Lets talk about ESC Mania! Dave thank you for bringing this up. I assume you are someone who has concerns about the ESC issue and I would like to know what they are. I think it is past time we had an open discussion re this issue., especially since it looks like ESCS are responsible for restoring sight to two women. And now, more than ever, the forces of opposition on the state level are mixing abortion with IVF, contraception and embryonic stem cell research. Millions of lives depend upon the outcome of this struggle and I don't mean aborted fetuses. -----Original Message----- From: David McMurray Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 12:20 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: ESC Mania! Using this nut to throw a blanket over anyone who has concerns about the stem cell issue is disingenuous, to say the least....come on, his constituents don't take him seriously, why should you? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Meg Duggan Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:07 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: ESC Mania! OMG OMG OMG. These people make me want to tear my hair out and set myself on fire. -----Original Message----- From: Nic Marais <[log in to unmask]> To: PARKINSN <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Fri, Jan 27, 2012 3:27 am Subject: ESC Mania! Ray, this is what you're up against!!! http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2105-aborted-fetuses-food-oklahoma.html And I thought we had problems with politicians here in SA... Nic 59/17 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- o sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] n the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn