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Try this argument on for size : doesn't "microscopic undifferentiated cells" cover menstrual products ? If serious, these guys would have to make menstruation illegal (an egg gets shed) and declare every bin in every female toilet/restroom a crime sceen... If they don't support that then they're not taking their own argument seriously & if they do they're ridiculous. > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 10:58:18 -0700 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: ESCR "EMBRYOS" > To: [log in to unmask] > > The embryos used for ESCR are not created for the purpose of medical > experimentation. The whole process of IVF results in more than needed so > owners must either freeze them forever, trash them, or donate them to > science. Many anti-abortionists also oppose IVF and contraceptives, as well > as ESCR and even SCNT which involves as unfertilized egg and a somatic cell > like a skin cell. I imagine they also oppose iPSCR as ESCs are necessary > for the research. They are also behind 14th amendment personhood rights > for zygotes which if legal would ban contraceptives, IVF, ESCR, as well as > abortion. A human cell is not a human person any more than a corporation > is a person or an acorn is an oak tree. > > I do know that Prentice falsely promoted Dennis Turner and several others > as ASC Parkinson "cures" on his ASC cure list of varying numbers for > several years. Also, Susan Fajit, a paraplegic. I talked to Dennis twice > on the phone when I could still talk. > > I do not fear clones, science, or the government. Without Medicare I could > not have afforded my 2 DBSs. I do not believe that "just let them die" as > was recently applauded by a Republican debate audience is a good solution. > With a few exceptions, scientists have done a pretty good job of > contributing to the public good. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David McMurray > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:14 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Lets talk about ESC Mania! > > Hi Rick; > > You make a good point, one that I have embraced for at least half a century, > but to debate on which side has more idiots would not be appropriate here, > and I am commenting on the subject of ESCR at the invitation of Ray. > > She has already discounted my response, i.e., Dr. Prentice and his testimony > before the Maryland House Committees, but I'd like to get specific and ask a > few questions, based on his testimony. Keep in mind that I don't claim to > be an expert nor do I have any education or training in this science. And > Ray, you obviously know more about him than I do. But these questions will > be taken from his testimony before Congress. > > 1. Does the science behind "somatic cell nuclear transfer" promote the use > of cloning technology to create human embryos for experiments? > 2. Is it true that almost all higher animals start their lives from a > single cell: the fertilized ovum. (zygote)? > 3. Do you agree that the National Academy of Sciences' definition of > "embryo" includes, "In medical terms, embryo usually refers to the > developing human from fertilization (the zygote stage)?.... > 4. Is it true, as stated by Dr. Prentice, that "Both Reproductive and > Therapeutic cloning use exactly the same techniques to create the clone, and > the cloned embryos are indistinguishable? > 5. Is it true that "therapeutic cloning requires the creation of and > disaggregation ex utero of blastocyst stage embryos"? > 6. Is it true that "Unlike much stem cell research, which can use spare > embryos remaining from infertility procedures, CRNT (cell replacement > through nuclear transfer AKA "therapeutic cloning") requires the deliberate > creation and disaggregation of a human embryo. (and this is, > evidently, where the Ethics question begins). > > So, the way I see it, and the reason abortion has been thrown into the mix, > Ray; those who have no problem with aborting "fetuses" will have no problem > with ESCR. > > And Rick, I'd be careful of promoting an issue that has to rely on what is > done "for the greater public". History cries out to us to learn from the > past, and not repeat the events that have been done under that guise. The > problem was in who determined what was good. > > In that regard, if Obama Care is fully implemented, seniors may very well be > individually scrutinized as to their viability. Those decisions will also > be made considering "the public good". If you don't believe it, there's > plenty on the web on both sides of the issue. But for me, Obama Care is > going to adversely impact all seniors, particularly those in need of major > medical care. (Such as ESC treatments)? > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick McGirr > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 12:33 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Lets talk about ESC Mania! > > Hello, folks, > > Ray, thanks for the invitation. > > "....come on, his constituents don't take him seriously, why should you?" > > My answer: because idiots vote. > > Misinformation is one of the chief tools in any political contest. If enough > people are ill-informed, they will cause wrong-headed bills to bubble up to > the top of public discourse, like this poor, misguided buffoon in Oklahoma > has done. It's curious that this legislator has, himself, bubbled to the top > of Okla politics. > > It's unfortunate that medical research has to sit on its hands while these > 'chicken-licken's' slowly grasp what is actually happening. I think the best > prophylactic for misguided ideas is a good dousing with correct information > and up-to-date discussion focusing on reality, the scientific method, and > the good of the greater public, tenets of public discourse back when I was > attending public schools. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rayilyn Brown > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 3:37 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Lets talk about ESC Mania! > > Dave > > thank you for bringing this up. I assume you are someone who has concerns > > about the ESC issue and I would like to know what they are. I think it is > past time we had an open discussion re this issue., especially since it > looks like ESCS are responsible for restoring sight to two women. And now, > more than ever, the forces of opposition on the state level are mixing > abortion with IVF, contraception and embryonic stem cell research. > > Millions of lives depend upon the outcome of this struggle and I don't mean > aborted fetuses. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David McMurray > Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 12:20 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: ESC Mania! > > Using this nut to throw a blanket over anyone who has concerns about the > stem cell issue is disingenuous, to say the least....come on, his > constituents don't take him seriously, why should you? > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Meg Duggan > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:07 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: ESC Mania! > > OMG OMG OMG. These people make me want to tear my hair out and set myself > on fire. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nic Marais <[log in to unmask]> > To: PARKINSN <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Fri, Jan 27, 2012 3:27 am > Subject: ESC Mania! > > > Ray, this is what you're up against!!! > http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2105-aborted-fetuses-food-oklahoma.html > And I thought we had problems with politicians here in SA... > Nic 59/17 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > o sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > n the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn