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One more point made on BigThink Editors that should encourage believers that are questioning the issue; Rutgers anthropologist Lionel Tiger and his colleague Michael McGuire wrote a book called "God's Brain". Their treatise is that in every human brain there is a neurochemical secretion that proves religion is a matter of science. I read somewhere that there is a vacuum formed in everyone that can only be filled by God. Seems as though maybe our Creator has trumped man's wisdom by design......interesting I haven't read the book, yet, but I think it may be a must read for anyone seriously considering these issues. Dave > Ray, there are many voices in the scientic community on both sides of the > issue, but, unfortuneatly, the loudest seem to come from athiests that are > on a mision to prove there is no God.. An example of this is one you may > know, James Randi, who was kicked out of a Sunday School class and has > dedicated his life, as an atheist, "tried and true". He agrees with guys > like biologist Richard Dawkins, (this info is gleaned from Big Think > Editors) who has stated that scientists never need faith. But then goes > on to say that his "faith is based on the scientific method. (a > religion)? > > David Gelernter, a professor of computer science at Yale University has > expressed concern that technology will eventually threaten human dignity > and integrity, making the "wisdom" and "moral seriousness" found in > religion even more important to future generations". He says without the > moral absolutes found in religion, technology's increasinrg intrusion into > human life via cloning and genetic engineering may present a "tremendously > dangerous, moral conflict of interest" to mankind. > > For me, it takes more faith to believe that the universe just haphazardly > came together in perfect orderly fashion, (the result of a Big Bang), than > to believe in a Creator. > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rayilyn Brown" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: MJFOX ON SANTORUM > > >> Rick >> >> I like your observation that life is a continuum. We were all star dust >> once. >> >> IVF sure changed the abortion argument didn't it? I mean who knew about >> zygotes among the non-scientific population? >> >> People who oppose science and base their opinions on faith should not be >> making research decisions in a secular society IMO. >> >> What I am most concerned about is this hostility to science. Faith >> didn't give us knowledge of DNA or IVF. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rick McGirr >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 12:45 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: MJFOX ON SANTORUM >> >> After listening to MJ Fox's diplomatic approach, I clicked on the short >> with Ron Paul and heard his pandering. I have also heard Santorum's >> absolute statements, and Gingrich's hypocritical traditionalism, Romney's >> posturing, and President Obama's strong support for a woman's right to >> choose. I can characterize much of what I hear as political >> "peacock-ing", if you'll allow me. >> >> The discussion about when a person's life begins is an interesting one. I >> expect that the more convinced one is about when personhood begins, the >> more resolute one will be about the issue of when abortion is allowable. >> The view that the fetus' life need not be considered at all seems to have >> taken a back seat to the idea that, at some stage along the way, a viable >> human person emerges during the nine month process, and "person" means >> "citizen" and "citizen" means "rights". >> >> For me, the terms need further clarification. "Life" to me is a >> continuum. If I fully represent my views here, it will be something >> different than what others would state. The questions crop up like new >> plant growth after a forest fire. Trying to be a bit dainty here, there >> is a lot of "life" that ends up in places other than where God intended >> for our propagation. If a couple copulate unsuccessfully, are eggs and >> sperm cells "life", even when they don't combine? Is this an example of >> when "life" ends? How is this life/death to be classified? Is there >> evidence of a moment at which the breath of life is blown into a group of >> cells? Does this "breath" cause a group of cells to be an individual? >> When is it appropriate to bestow full citizen's rights to this group of >> cells? Is there a moment which passes, after which we can draw the >> distinction between persons and biological material? Further, do frozen, >> non-implanted embryos meet any such definitions? These 'groups of cells' >> are not in a survivable condition, once they are thawed. They still have >> to successfully be implanted by the doctor, and attach to the uterine >> wall of the candidate mother and develop the umbilical cord, etc, through >> the months during gestation. Is there a mother/child relationship between >> the un-implanted embryo while it survives in the womb? Is the woman >> actually a "mother", before, during, and/or after such attempts are made, >> either in the bedroom or the laboratory? In the case of unsuccessful >> attempts, should the doctor, or the copulating couple, be charged with >> negligence or worse? This is not a ridiculous question, within the >> framework of current discussions, that is, if "life begins at >> conception". >> >> Are these and a host of other questions not legally, socially, >> religiously, personally, politically pertinent? Is this not as thorny a >> range of subjects as you could encounter in any creekside raspberry >> patch? >> >> My view is that even though males participate in the process of >> procreation, women ought to be the majority of any body deciding on a >> woman's right to ask for and receive abortion. If I were a woman, I >> wouldn't want any gaggle of rich, white men to sit in judgment of my >> sexuality and the sanctity of my actions. I also view the discussion of a >> woman's right to abortion services as a distracting parallel discussion >> on the rights of the cells of embryos. My view is that there is no >> evidence of personhood at the stage of combined sperm and egg, before >> implantation in the uterus, including those embryos in the freezers of >> IVF clinics. The use of such embryos for medical research should be >> allowed and fully supported. >> >> So many questions, and so many answers... >> >> Rick McGirr >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rayilyn Brown >> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:51 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: MJFOX ON SANTORUM >> >> Fox has interesting take on Santorum’s ESCR beliefs: >> >> http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/14/michael-j-fox-on-rick-santorums-anti-stem-cell-research-beliefs-i-dont-want-to-suppress-ideas-i-dont-agree-with/?hpt=pm_mid >> >> Ray >> Rayilyn Brown >> Past Director AZNPF >> Arizona Chapter National Parkinson Foundation >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: >> mailto:[log in to unmask] >> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn