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Rick I like your observation that life is a continuum. We were all star dust once. IVF sure changed the abortion argument didn't it? I mean who knew about zygotes among the non-scientific population? People who oppose science and base their opinions on faith should not be making research decisions in a secular society IMO. What I am most concerned about is this hostility to science. Faith didn't give us knowledge of DNA or IVF. -----Original Message----- From: Rick McGirr Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 12:45 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: MJFOX ON SANTORUM After listening to MJ Fox's diplomatic approach, I clicked on the short with Ron Paul and heard his pandering. I have also heard Santorum's absolute statements, and Gingrich's hypocritical traditionalism, Romney's posturing, and President Obama's strong support for a woman's right to choose. I can characterize much of what I hear as political "peacock-ing", if you'll allow me. The discussion about when a person's life begins is an interesting one. I expect that the more convinced one is about when personhood begins, the more resolute one will be about the issue of when abortion is allowable. The view that the fetus' life need not be considered at all seems to have taken a back seat to the idea that, at some stage along the way, a viable human person emerges during the nine month process, and "person" means "citizen" and "citizen" means "rights". For me, the terms need further clarification. "Life" to me is a continuum. If I fully represent my views here, it will be something different than what others would state. The questions crop up like new plant growth after a forest fire. Trying to be a bit dainty here, there is a lot of "life" that ends up in places other than where God intended for our propagation. If a couple copulate unsuccessfully, are eggs and sperm cells "life", even when they don't combine? Is this an example of when "life" ends? How is this life/death to be classified? Is there evidence of a moment at which the breath of life is blown into a group of cells? Does this "breath" cause a group of cells to be an individual? When is it appropriate to bestow full citizen's rights to this group of cells? Is there a moment which passes, after which we can draw the distinction between persons and biological material? Further, do frozen, non-implanted embryos meet any such definitions? These 'groups of cells' are not in a survivable condition, once they are thawed. They still have to successfully be implanted by the doctor, and attach to the uterine wall of the candidate mother and develop the umbilical cord, etc, through the months during gestation. Is there a mother/child relationship between the un-implanted embryo while it survives in the womb? Is the woman actually a "mother", before, during, and/or after such attempts are made, either in the bedroom or the laboratory? In the case of unsuccessful attempts, should the doctor, or the copulating couple, be charged with negligence or worse? This is not a ridiculous question, within the framework of current discussions, that is, if "life begins at conception". Are these and a host of other questions not legally, socially, religiously, personally, politically pertinent? Is this not as thorny a range of subjects as you could encounter in any creekside raspberry patch? My view is that even though males participate in the process of procreation, women ought to be the majority of any body deciding on a woman's right to ask for and receive abortion. If I were a woman, I wouldn't want any gaggle of rich, white men to sit in judgment of my sexuality and the sanctity of my actions. I also view the discussion of a woman's right to abortion services as a distracting parallel discussion on the rights of the cells of embryos. My view is that there is no evidence of personhood at the stage of combined sperm and egg, before implantation in the uterus, including those embryos in the freezers of IVF clinics. The use of such embryos for medical research should be allowed and fully supported. So many questions, and so many answers... Rick McGirr -----Original Message----- From: Parkinson's Information Exchange Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rayilyn Brown Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:51 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: MJFOX ON SANTORUM Fox has interesting take on Santorum’s ESCR beliefs: http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/14/michael-j-fox-on-rick-santorums-anti-stem-cell-research-beliefs-i-dont-want-to-suppress-ideas-i-dont-agree-with/?hpt=pm_mid Ray Rayilyn Brown Past Director AZNPF Arizona Chapter National Parkinson Foundation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn