Guys, This is NOT the place for political dialogue. PD is depressing enough. Take your politics elsewhere. Tony On 4/16/2012 2:29 PM, David McMurray wrote: > Hi Rick; the difference between the way I see it, as opposed to many > on this site; it's obvious that I am convinced the government IS the > problem, not the solution. The thousands of alphabet soup agencies > that had such glowing promise of solving a particular social or > economic injustice has been a miserable failure, with the only > answer from the Feds: create more bureaucracy and increase spending. > Jimmy Carter in 1976, I believe, created the Dept. of Energy to end > our reliance on foreign oil, by "developing and producing domestic > supplies". OSHA was created to increase safety in the workplace, but > has had little or no impact. (But has caused tremendous cost > increases). The NLRB was originally formed as an un-biased Federal > Agency to settle disputes between Management and Labor. Now, it is a > crusader for Organized Labor.... This Behemoth (Big Government) has a > voracious and insatiable appetite that has the US, as well as most of > the industrial nations drowning in red ink. We are broke, period. > > With our huge deficits growing exponentially, Obama trots out his > answer to Health Insurance, claiming it will lower medical costs. Of > coarse, the numbers used have been proven to be as worthless as the > paper it's written on, with the GAO and bi-partisan congressional > review stating the actual cost is triple the projections.... > > One of the lead proponents of Obama-Care is in love with Great > Britain's plan. I've read some interesting comments and some > history..correct me if this is not accurate; some claim that the > glowing promise of the newly formed NHS in July of 1948 becoming the > bench mark for Socialized Medicine has failed miserably, considered > by many as the worst of all the industrialized nations. Costs have > exploded. The NHS uses the most aggressive pricing in the West, > going so far as to assign a price to the "Quality-Adjusted Life > Year", that is required to extend it. But from 1996-2008 national > health costs in the UK have gone up 6.7%, compared with 5.7% in the > U.S. If you don't qualify under the "Quality-adjusted Life Year > criterion, and chose to have the treatment and pay for it yourself, > you are kicked off the NHS for life. > > Terminally ill patients are classified as "close to death" to allow > removal of expensive life support. Hip and knee replacement > schedules are supposed to be 5 months, but are actually a 11 month > wait. If you buy a drug that NHS won't cover, you're expelled for > ever. In 1999, realizing they couldn't absorb the skyrocketing > costs, they formed rationing boards whose sole purpose was to > identify and limit coverage to those procedures that were deemed > "cost effective". The "QALY" was formed precisely to deny elderly > care patients and shift coverage to younger, healthier patients. > This probably explains the statistics that show the UK with the > highest mortality rates for elderly patients diagnosed with cancer > or chronic illnesses. > > There's much, much more that should cause us to pause, ponder, and > heed the warning signs....they are there. > > Dave > > P.S.: Rick, I didn't refer to them as "death panels", and didn't > compare Obama to Stalin. :) > > -----Original Message----- From: Rick McGirr Sent: Sunday, April 15, > 2012 11:05 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT W I > LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER? David, > > If America is so wealthy, why are so many people living without any > healthcare at all? > > We have seen the profit motive at work in healthcare before, in the > case of the pharmaceutical company which pulled the plug on a trial > of GDNF. The chief exec of the company was caught saying, at a > shareholder meeting, that treatments such as GDNF were not the way > the company should go, because of its poor profit prospects. Left > alone to cope in our free-market system, these poor subjects are > stuck with the hardware for the delivery of GDNF still implanted in > their bodies. This is not a hypothetical case. It actually happened. > > Echoing Ray’s remarks, what if a cure for Parkinson’s was developed, > but the projections for the profitability were low enough to steer > the most companies away from the cure’s development and mass > production? Is there no point at all when a caring society should > stand up for all the ones who would be left in the lurch? Are we to > sit idly by and let the bulls trample our chance of regaining what we > have lost during our tenure as inmates in the PD prison? > > David, I just don’t know how you could fall for the “death committee” > lies and the comparisons of Mr. Obama’s presidency to Stalinist > Russia in the mid-20th century. I say if there is enough money in > our society to fight two or three simultaneous wars and bully the > rest of the world with our military in the vanguard, bail out the > banks and Chevrolet, and give the proposed tax cuts to the wealthiest > beneficiaries of the free-market, there certainly should be a little > pile of coins that we could sweep up after the capitalist binge, > enough to provide for development of unprofitable but effective > treatments, along with coverage for those who can’t afford it. > > Being deemed “unfit for further treatment” is much more likely in the > system that existed before the Affordable Healthcare Act. I’m sure > there are many on this listserve who can testify to having been > denied prescription coverage, or paying hundreds of dollars for a > single bottle of pills. And I’m sure that all of us have heard horror > stories about people being denied care in emergency rooms, and later > dying because they didn’t have insurance coverage. In fact, > committees who do indeed decide people’s fate on a cost-benefit basis > exist right now, today, only they are not created and run by > President Obama and his sinister squad of eugenic scientists. They > are just part of the daily practice of running a health insurance > company. > > It's becoming increasingly harder to watch these discussions without > participating. Hope you don't mind. > > Rick McGirr > > -----Original Message----- From: Parkinson's Information Exchange > Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rayilyn > Brown Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 2:53 AM To: > [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT W I LL YOU DO IN > NOVEMBER? > > Hi David, > > and thanks for responding. I guess you fear Obama has death panels > in store for us, right? So what do you suggest for health care? > > At one time in history feudalism was a "better" system. > Capitalism and industralization definitely led to human progress; > non-industial societies don't do very well. But is this the end of > the line? The best we can do? I specifically asked why profit had > to be a part of health care and you did not address that question. > > The defects of the "free market" system put us in this mess, not Mr. > Obama. The repeal of the Glass-Seagall Act's ban on investment and > commercial banking in one institution led to the financial breakdown. > It had kept us safe since the 1930's > > I for one am tired of hearing about the superiority of the United > States. For your information DBS was first done by a French doctor. > ProSavin is only being done in the UK and France. > > I also think the big government vs. small government issue is a phony > one. What matters is who is in the government not how big or small > it is. For the past few decades Republicans have gotten control of > many state governments. Witness the retrogressive, extremist > legislation they are producing or attempting to produce, personhood > laws, bans on collective bargaining, invasive vaginal exams, voter > suppression, anti-abortion, stand your ground, etc. Talk about Big > Brother!!!! > > These issues do affect people with Parkinson's and all diseases for > that matter. We ignore them at our peril. > > -----Original Message----- From: David McMurray Sent: Saturday, April > 14, 2012 12:26 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: WHAT > W I LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER? > > Ray, your comments and questions warrant a response.....in general, > profit has made this country the most prosperous, with the highest > standard of living, in the history of mankind. Instead of a system, > like the Soviet Union and others that shared and share equally in > scarcity, (which increases human suffering and a poverty standard of > living), our Free Market economy has done just the opposite. And if > we can reverse the direction that Mr. Obama has pointed us in, we > will continue to see opportunities for those who want to work hard > and improve their lot in life. > > I am much more concerned about Big Brother telling us what we can or > cannot be treated for. I've seen the quotes, and the Panels of > Experts that will eventually be formed under ObamaCare will have the > power to deem an individual unfit for further treatment, or a > specific treatment, (based on economic concerns, i.e., what's the > cost/benefit factor.) Obama has mentioned the fact that the rising > cost of Care is directly related to the increased numbers of the > Senior population and the expensive treatment for serious illnesses > common to them. Denying treatment is going to be a major > cost-cutting feature of OBC.....this concept used to be" > Unthinkable", but has become "Thinkable", soon to be > "Acceptable".....all done for the "common good". > > November, for me is a "no-brainer"....:):) > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Rayilyn Brown Sent: Friday, April > 13, 2012 1:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: WHAT W I > LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER? > > I just heard Romney’s address to the NRA. he said Obama is > destroying our economic, religious and personal freedom (to choose > our own health care), and the constitution . The Declaration of > Independence god-given rights was also cited. > > What kind of a life does one have with Parkinson’s? > > Is a cure going to come from the free market which sees no profit in > a cure, the churches, or the NRA? > > Can someone tell me why profit has to be the foundation of our health > care? > > WHAT A TERRIBLE SHAME IT WOULD BE IF PROSAVIN TURNED OUT TO BE A CURE > FOR PD, BUT WAS NOT PROFITABLE ENOUGH FOR THE “JOB CREATORS”!! > > Please, I beg you, don’t return us to the past. > > Ray Rayilyn Brown Past Director AZNPF Arizona Chapter National > Parkinson Foundation > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] > In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn > in life.<br> > <br> > I am much more concerned about Big Brother telling us what we can or<br> > cannot be treated for. I've seen the quotes, and the Panels of<br> > Experts that will eventually be formed under ObamaCare will have the<br> > power to deem an individual unfit for further treatment, or a<br> > specific treatment, (based on economic concerns, i.e., what's the<br> > cost/benefit factor.) Obama has mentioned the fact that the rising<br> > cost of Care is directly related to the increased numbers of the<br> > Senior population and the expensive treatment for serious illnesses<br> > common to them. Denying treatment is going to be a major<br> > cost-cutting feature of OBC.....this concept used to be"<br> > Unthinkable", but has become "Thinkable", soon to be<br> > "Acceptable".....all done for the "common good".<br> > <br> > November, for me is a "no-brainer"....:):)<br> > <br> > Dave<br> > <br> > <br> > <br> > -----Original Message----- From: Rayilyn Brown Sent: Friday, April<br> > 13, 2012 1:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: WHAT W I<br> > LL YOU DO IN NOVEMBER?<br> > <br> > I just heard Romney’s address to the NRA. he said Obama is<br> > destroying our economic, religious and personal freedom (to choose<br> > our own health care), and the constitution . The Declaration of<br> > Independence god-given rights was also cited.<br> > <br> > What kind of a life does one have with Parkinson’s?<br> > <br> > Is a cure going to come from the free market which sees no profit in<br> > a cure, the churches, or the NRA?<br> > <br> > Can someone tell me why profit has to be the foundation of our health<br> > care?<br> > <br> > WHAT A TERRIBLE SHAME IT WOULD BE IF PROSAVIN TURNED OUT TO BE A CURE<br> > FOR PD, BUT WAS NOT PROFITABLE ENOUGH FOR THE “JOB CREATORS”!!<br> > <br> > Please, I beg you, don’t return us to the past.<br> > <br> > Ray Rayilyn Brown Past Director AZNPF Arizona Chapter National<br> > Parkinson Foundation<br> > <br> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br> ><br> > </span><br> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<br> <span style="white-space: pre;">> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn<br> > <br> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br> ><br> > </span><br> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<br> <span style="white-space: pre;">> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn<br> > <br> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br> ><br> > </span><br> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<br> <span style="white-space: pre;">> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn<br> > <br> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br> ><br> > </span><br> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<br> <span style="white-space: pre;">> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn <br> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br> ><br> > </span><br> To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask]<br> <span style="white-space: pre;">> In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn<br> > </span><br> </body> </html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To sign-off Parkinsn send a message to: mailto:[log in to unmask] In the body of the message put: signoff parkinsn